Navigating the PR Landscape with Franscesca Donnellan

In this episode of Leadership Bites, Francesca Donnellan the CEO of 29 London and Global Talent Network Group shares her entrepreneurial journey, discussing the challenges and triumphs of running her PR and marketing businesses. 

She emphasizes the importance of discipline, time management, and the need for authenticity in branding. 

The conversation explores the evolving landscape of PR, the impact of AI, and the significance of building strong client relationships. 

Francesca highlights the long-term value of PR in marketing strategies and the necessity of understanding brand narratives to effectively connect with audiences.

Takeaways

• Francesca runs two successful businesses in PR and marketing.
• Entrepreneurship requires grit, determination, and discipline.
• Time management is crucial for success in business.
• Procrastination can hinder productivity and progress.
• Building relationships is key to successful PR and marketing.
• Authenticity is essential in branding and marketing.
• AI is changing the landscape of PR and marketing.
• Client relationships should be nurtured for long-term success.
• PR is a long-term strategy that builds brand awareness.
• Understanding brand narratives is vital for effective marketing.

Chapters

00:00
Introduction and Background

03:18
The Journey of Entrepreneurship

06:16
Time Management and Discipline

09:22
The Reality of Entrepreneurship

12:18
Building a Business and Self-Motivation

15:15
The Role of PR in Marketing

18:20
Navigating Industry Changes and Authenticity

25:44
The Rise of Influencers and Authenticity

30:44
Building Relationships in Business

36:34
Understanding Brand Narratives

42:52
The Impact of AI on Branding and PR

49:16
The Long Game of PR and Marketing

To find out more about Guy Bloom and his award winning work in Team Coaching, Leadership Development and Executive Coaching click below.

The link to everything CLICK HERE
UK: 07827 953814
Email: guybloom@livingbrave.com
Web: www.livingbrave.com

Transcript

Guy Bloom (00:19)
So Francesca, it is absolutely delightful to have you on this episode of Leadership Bites. Welcome.

Francesca (00:31)
Thank you for having me, Guy. I'm absolutely honoured to be sitting with you here today. Having a good chin wag, hopefully.

Guy Bloom (00:37)
That's

what it is. And do you know what? When I started doing podcasting and I had my first person on, I was just so grateful that somebody was willing to come on. But now I get to approach amazing people. Not that the first one wasn't amazing. But now I get to approach amazing people and have great conversations. So we'll get stuck into that. I always start these off the same way, which is, I know who you are. Just introduce yourself and... ⁓

Francesca (00:48)
Yes.

Guy Bloom (01:06)
If in reality, you know, we laughed about this when we were talking before, but you know, if somebody walked up to you at a social gathering and went, what do you do? You know, just, who are you? What do you do? That's a good start.

Francesca (01:16)
Yeah, yeah. Well,

as I said, Guy, you know, that question is always one of those questions that actually does get me and I end up sort of like trying to sneak off somewhere and avoid it because it's never that straightforward, especially when you work for yourself. So I guess, yeah, I run two businesses, two small businesses, but small and mighty. We've been going for sort of 10 years. So this year is our 10 year anniversary. I started with a PR company, so service based industry.

And subsequently from that, I've developed another sort of strand and created another business called the Global Talent Network Group, which specialises in VIP, which is a very niche area ⁓ in marketing, but essentially, you know, our job is to get celebrities paired with brands and develop campaigns and work from that side of the fence. So it is very interesting. It's a very ⁓ fun life. I think people looking in wonder.

how much work gets done. But, you know, I'm very lucky that the marketing world, you know, it does gel quite well with, you know, our personal world because we're dealing with products and brands all the time in our personal life. So, you know, the two do go hand in hand. But it wasn't that easy to start, you know what mean? It's definitely a hard industry to get into. But I'm very, very excited that...

I get to be able to still be here after 10 years because it's not easy.

Guy Bloom (02:50)
I think that's interesting. There is, you know, I want to kind of get to understand your journey to where, to you being here, but also when you do start up any business, doesn't matter what it is, you know, there's an element of hope, you know, there's an element of, you know, aspiration. So to, you know, somebody even a simple thing like the podcast isn't my business, but somebody said, if you want to be a successful guy, just keep doing them. Because the reality is most people will stop and...

Francesca (03:02)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Yeah,

consistently.

Guy Bloom (03:18)
And I think there is just something

about the grim determination that goes with it. Unless you just hit the jackpot of the thing that everybody wants, which is highly unlikely. Part of it is just an element of sheer grit, which I'm always fascinated in.

Francesca (03:27)
Yeah.

Yes,

100%. And I think I've had that from a young age, to be honest. You know, I'm quite good at getting into something and sticking with it, despite the kind of tantrums maybe along the way. It's not easy, but I definitely aren't somebody that gives up easily. know, I've grown up playing, you know, sport when you're a kid. It's all those things that you take for granted when you're younger that actually, you know, that staying power, that willpower, that kind of get up and go, the...

I think as well also it's the discipline. You know, I've been used to getting up early and doing exercise or doing stuff from a young age. So for me, that discipline part's always played a very key part in who I am today and how that's evolved. But I can certainly see when I look back where that started to play its part. And they call it sort of the 10,000 hour rule, don't if you do something over and over again, you become an expert. And I think, you know, when you're a child and you're growing up into sort of teenage years and early adulthood.

⁓ trying to be consistent and keep some of those things going does pay off I think in later life and gives you that sort of probably foundation of a mindset that you can then build off as you get older. And it certainly has helped me. I I didn't start my business with any money. I started it with nothing. I could only afford an iPad and a little keyboard ⁓ and I was...

working at one of the biggest international drinks companies in the world at the time. And ⁓ when I realized the timings were nine till five in the office, that gave me loads of extra time, either side of that, to start setting up my business. So I used all my time very wisely. And it was quite a side hustle, yeah, absolutely.

Guy Bloom (05:16)
That side hustle, I'm very,

I love that phrase, I can't remember who coined it, but I, and that's what I did, I was working for a consultancy, exactly the same thing, and I was very clear about it, said, I don't know when, but it won't be this year, probably two or three years from now, but I'm gonna write a book, I'm gonna get a website up, it's not gonna mean anything, but I actually wanna get it going so it's got momentum, and actually sometimes you have to do it a little bit more covertly, but I think there is something about that.

Francesca (05:22)
it

Mm.

Yes.

Guy Bloom (05:46)
Yeah, don't walk out on Friday and then start on Monday because that's going to be a bit brutal.

Francesca (05:46)
Yes, absolutely.

Yeah, think the thing is time is something that we all have in equal measures. it's trying to figure out where you put your time, where you spend it, how you approach it. It's a hard thing to manage because time does just, you know, literally disappears. You can easily get through your day having just potted around, you know, and you wonder sometimes how you fit it all in.

I think that's why you need to be quite meticulous and be very organized and planned in everything you're doing. And I think that does help lead to more success.

Guy Bloom (06:27)
Yeah, I mean, we're, I love the nature of this is we're not necessarily going through a set list of questions. We're jumping as we hear things, but I've got a whiteboard over there. I've got a whiteboard over here. I'm making notes here. ⁓ Actually, I think there is something about that lists, you know, and not lists for the sake of lists, but actually ⁓ somebody once said this to me and it stuck with me and I do it now, which is look at all the stuff you've got to do. he said, there's two ways of looking at it. Which one?

Francesca (06:38)
You've got lists everywhere.

Mm. Yeah.

Guy Bloom (06:57)
takes you nearer the goal. So for me, if it's making money, which one, if you've got to do some design, write a pitch, send an invoice, whatever, which one is the nearest to bringing money in? And always do that one first, which I thought was quite interesting.

Francesca (07:08)
Yes.

But it's so easy to procrastinate though,

isn't it? Like, procrastination is, especially when you're trying to run something on your own and you're starting out. But you are on your own, ultimately, you know, and even when you build a business and you've got more people working for you, it's still quite a lonely place to be. And you have to be so ⁓ motivated, even when you've got the list, to complete the list. And I often find I can procrastinate about stuff.

and then I do it and it's taken me five minutes and you're, I could have in my head I'm like it's gonna take weeks or it's gonna take all day, I'm never gonna get it done and yeah, I think that's probably one of my worst habits is trying to break that feeling because it's, as you know, there's always stuff to do.

Guy Bloom (07:57)
Well, you said discipline earlier, and I mentioned this literally in a podcast last week. I said sometimes things stick with me. If I do a few recordings in the week, everybody gets to hear it three or four times. But it is this idea of discipline and the discipline of leaning into the stuff that you don't want to do. And for me, every time I look at the things, I actually prioritize my activity, yes, by what is nearer to the goal, but actually,

Francesca (08:07)
Yeah.

Guy Bloom (08:26)
Which of those things do I not want to do? And those things go to the top of the list because they're normally indicative of the things that need to get done as opposed to the things that I'd like to do. And that works really well for me. List, which are the important ones? Fine. I don't want to do any of those three. Right, those are the three I'm doing. Right, which of those three do I least want to do? Right, I'm doing that one first, like admin or sending it. I hate it. So I do.

Francesca (08:29)
That's good

Yeah.

That's very good.

Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Hey, Ed.

Guy Bloom (08:54)
every day that gets done first and the freedom of that actually is quite fascinating then you don't sit with the rest of the day with that monkey on your back you've done it you know so i don't know if

Francesca (08:58)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Especially when it comes to

admin, nobody enjoys that. But it is a process that I do think that you have to draw attention to it if you're going to start a business and you have to put all these things that seem really simple and that they're things often people don't talk about. know, people are much more inclined these days to talk about how to get rich quick. They're much more inclined to talk about how everybody should become an entrepreneur, which I don't agree with.

Guy Bloom (09:22)
Yes.

Francesca (09:34)
you know, everyone has to make their own way and working for yourself is not everybody's way and that's okay. You know, it might be that, you know, you can get more organized, you know, in your own job and actually that potentially could help you earn more. You don't necessarily need to be ⁓ always side hustling or always jumping ship because I think there's so much information out there these days, especially since I started, you know, nobody was freelancing, you know.

never mind setting up businesses, and now everybody's kind of doing it. And I think people are excited and want to do it, and I think the internet definitely feeds a lot of it, but the reality is you are making lists. You are procrastinating. You have to self-start, and it is a very difficult place to be. The bread and butter of it is hard, ⁓ and nobody is ever going to do it for you. You have to do it yourself, and if you don't, go through those pain processes and...

and it is painful to do it all yourself, then you'll never learn and never get better, but it's definitely not easy.

Guy Bloom (10:36)
fascinated by this franchise and it'll lead us into, you know, lots of other little conversations. However, so I do leadership development coaching and the world is flooded with coaches. Flooded, flooded. Every single person wants to be a coach and of course all social media is, you can work from Bali with your laptop and make a hundred thousand a year working two days a week. Well you can't.

Francesca (10:48)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

No, where do I sign up?

Guy Bloom (11:05)
And that's,

you know, and it's just that, you know, write a book, become a thought leader. And of course, guess what? I'll help you do. And once you're a thought leader, people will just grab it. No, they won't. It's just because, hey, your book's probably bullshit. And even if it's great, do you think Simon Sinek's books are not going to sell as many as yours? You know, there's already flooded. There's already a load of people out there. So actually, this dream, this aspiration.

Francesca (11:19)
Yes.

Yeah.

Guy Bloom (11:34)
is it and it hooks people in and it's not even currently it's just any level own your own pub own your own restaurant have your own yeah but actually understand that it's brutal

Francesca (11:36)
Yeah.

Yes.

It is, yes. And I think lots of people as well, when they first start out, have a tendency to maybe tell everybody else in their network or their family or friends what they're going to do. And they run all the ideas past everybody. And I think that's something else that people need to be very careful about. Because often you end up becoming influenced then by others. And that may prohibit you from actually doing.

and you become that person who talks about it for two years, three, four years, and never actually doing it because the reality is somebody's put a little bit of doubt in your mind and making that leap is scary. I would always encourage anyone to make the leap if they've got an itch to do it because I do think that ⁓ the other side of it is actually amazing. ⁓

Guy Bloom (12:18)
Yeah.

Francesca (12:39)
I think I'm now completely unemployable as a result. I've never, I've always run away.

Guy Bloom (12:41)
Yeah. ⁓ it's remarkable

that you said that. Somebody actually said to me, you are now fundamentally unemployable guy. Because, no, because now the way that you are is, you know, you'd either have to be the CEO of the thing, you know, which is, you know, or no, because by definition now you can't, you don't fit into that space anymore. So I think that's absolutely hilarious. So.

Francesca (12:49)
Yeah, nobody would have blown me.

Yes.

Yeah, not gonna happen.

Guy Bloom (13:10)
You know, in the context of your, and this is separate confrontation for entrepreneurial startups, I think we might have a side hustle on podcast, which I think we could talk about that and help people with dramatically. I can literally speak for days on the topic of, I think you think that's a good idea, but let me tell you, know, dot, dot, dot. You know, I'm fascinated by, even simple things like actually just going completely off track. I get, I've got about 60 LinkedIn recommendations.

Francesca (13:15)
Yes.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Guy Bloom (13:38)
because

X amount of years ago, I started asking people for LinkedIn recommendations and the amount of peers that I have that don't have any. Because they just, again, they go, well, you know, and they find it awkward to ask or they, it's not about being awkward to ask, you've got to. Because actually when your credibility in five years, when you want to go to that more senior level, you go, listen.

Francesca (13:47)
yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

Guy Bloom (14:02)
I'm going to tell you I'm awesome. Have a look at their, look at the names. But actually that strategic thinking, that willingness to think three years ahead, that courage to go, okay, you know what, then would you mind writing us a testimony along Google or whatever the heck it is that you get, whatever it is. I think one of the biggest things for the entrepreneur is some people are just inherently courageous in all their actions for whatever.

Francesca (14:28)
Yes.

Yeah. Yeah.

Guy Bloom (14:29)
DNA or upbringing they've

had. And then for others, you're going to have to find the courage to move and do things that you don't like or is... Because if you can't go there, you know, I wouldn't ring somebody, the website will do the work. Well, it won't. You know, you're going to have to grow.

Francesca (14:41)
Yes.

No. Yes. I set up social media and

now all the money is going to come rolling in when everyone sees it. No. It doesn't, it doesn't suddenly work like that. I have to say like when I started out with my iPad, I remember I was living in a rented flat down in Dalston in Hackney and I woke up and I just thought what on day one and I just thought what the hell do I do? I actually took myself to the pub, which was the only thing I think I could.

Guy Bloom (14:53)
Yeah.

Francesca (15:15)
There's nothing, I don't know what, nobody, there weren't cafes where people would do, know, completely at a loss. you know, know, once nobody, you forget when you work in a big corporate environment, you have time to like chat and your days will go quickly sometimes because you maybe go make a coffee and you've spent half an hour gossiping with somebody. And now you've got all this time on your hands and I had to go and find clients and.

I started sort of my self-development journey at that point really and I remember I had all these post-it notes all around my bedroom. Motivational. Everything I could think of was written on across the walls essentially. Just so at every point and every turn I was starting to feed myself really strong messaging because I worked out very early that without a strong mindset you just can't do the journey. It doesn't matter how good your idea is, it doesn't matter.

whatever you've got if you don't have the mindset it is ⁓ you will get crushed it's it's too ⁓

Guy Bloom (16:19)
Well, you've got to

be your own support group, haven't you? You're your own counsel, your own support group, your own cheerleader. You know, those things may come in time as part of a network or an organization, but to start, it's you. You know?

Francesca (16:26)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, and you'll find

as you find as the journey goes on, it is still you, you know, ⁓ that's the of the journey that people forget to tell you. There's no end goal on the journey. You just keep learning and nobody tells you that you're doing a good job. know, nobody is going to say this is, you it's not, you have to find it all within yourself because you've put yourself in a different camp now and, you know.

Guy Bloom (16:40)
Yeah, well, there is that. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Francesca (17:03)
you can get scrutinized more because you are just out there doing stuff people then you know you might find as well people around you get jealous because they wish they

Guy Bloom (17:12)
And you

might get jealous as well, actually. That's... Well, you know, somebody said this phrase to me for another topic completely, which was comparison is the thief of joy. And you do need to look at what other people are doing to make sure that you're not missing a beat. if you're comparing, if you're collecting data, that's one thing. But if you're comparing and if I look at other exec coaches and go, my God, he seems more popular or she seems to be getting... Then you'll just... It's not when people say how many people listen to the podcast.

Francesca (17:15)
the people pay checks.

Nothing.

Yeah.

Guy Bloom (17:42)
I don't know. I don't look. We got put in the top three for an award thing the other day and I went brilliant. Oh, how many people listening? I've no idea. Because if I start looking, then I'm going to compare, then I'm going to get sucked in, then I'm going to be disappointed that that awesome podcast that I loved having with you, maybe it didn't get as many as I want. So actually, do you know what?

Francesca (17:45)
to.

become obsessed.

Yeah.

That's

really smart that you do that though because you know it is it is hard that's a really strong like discipline that you have because you know I've I've become obsessed a part of doing the work and doing what I do I do become obsessed with everything. Yeah. Yeah.

Guy Bloom (18:20)
But you also have to validate it to others, which is slightly different. I only have to validate it to myself. So that's a slightly

different thing.

Francesca (18:27)
I know, but I've started, I mean, I can't tell you the amount of side hustles I've started even when I have my own business. You know what I mean? I'm constantly, ⁓ yeah, I'm constantly moving forward in lots of different ways. Unfortunately, once you scratch that itch, it's hard. And that's what entrepreneurs or founders do struggle with is how often they go off in different directions.

Guy Bloom (18:35)
I was side hustling my side hustle.

Francesca (18:53)
Because once you start something, you suddenly keep seeing little problems and you think, I could just solve that. And if I just do this, I could, you know.

Guy Bloom (18:59)
Yeah.

So,

brilliant. mean, ⁓ blimey. So let's get into the job of running ⁓ the organizations that you do have. Give a sense of just small and mighty global talent. What's their point in the market and what is it that you...

people would pay attention to them for, why would they go, that's why I'd want to know about that or understand what they do.

Francesca (19:36)
Yeah, so where we started, 29 London is sort of the core PR company and you know, I'd say we're very fortunate to work with, you know, big brands like Pym's and we do Wimbledon. ⁓ We work across a lot of Cannes Film Festival, Monaco Grand Prix. We work across all the really sexy, shiny events that people get excited about. We work across a lot of drinks companies and help them.

to promote. I think the thing is the industry has changed. Ultimately, PR has changed huge amounts. And we're going to see another massive change thanks to AI that will shift things in our industry a lot. I think my industry and what we love to do is storytell. It's really important that we understand how brands work and how they operate, how they speak to their customers, and where those channels are. And as we all know now because of social media,

the channels of which we can communicate are almost endless. mean, there's huge amounts of ways and paths to speak. So, you know, our job is really to help brands sort of bring their messaging to life. And I have to say, like my sort of AI predictions, especially in our industry, I think we're going to see a lot more in-person events than ever. I think AI is going to impact the PR industry a lot. Without a shadow of a doubt, we're already seeing it.

There's so much that can be automated with clients. So a lot of what we do as well, we used to do it pre-code.

Guy Bloom (21:07)
And when you say

in person events, you mean the person or people of a level turning up and having other people having physical contact.

Francesca (21:10)
Like, yeah, yeah,

exactly. So like, so when we have a lot like launch parties and you know, if we're launching a new drink, brand or new wellness brand, so yes, trying to get and getting customers, I guess as well in front of the brands more, rather than just relying on social, which I think brands are struggling to see as much, you know, ROI on social media and content than

previously because it's becoming so saturated.

Guy Bloom (21:42)
So is this a typical...

there's a way of doing something and then the new shiny thing comes along and everybody you know it's like watching kids play football right adults stay in their position but the kids all just follow the ball and you can kind of maybe look at them I can I look at the same thing with coaching and all that kind of stuff and go yeah that's the new psychometric or that's the new book and I just watch everybody run after it

Francesca (21:46)
Hmm.

you

Everywhere. Yeah.

Guy Bloom (22:12)
And then I see certain people just hold back and go, well, let's just see where that goes. It's not that we won't do it. It's not that we won't read it. But let's not, you know, because actually what you realize is that some people are fad led. They, there is a FOMO thing going on and actually probably their maturity in talking to their senior teams is, yeah, we're on it. Which is a very junior mindset as opposed to, well, let's look at where that's going to go.

Francesca (22:29)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Guy Bloom (22:41)
and

actually the ability to hold space, be strategic and go, it's not that we won't factor it in, but I don't necessarily think we need to put everything, et cetera. So I wonder if you see a level, well it's rhetorical because every industry has got its maturity, but I'd love you to talk about maybe where you think you have the maturity and the insight and maybe the strategy that maybe you recognize that others don't.

Francesca (23:08)
Yeah, I think from our perspective, industry, unfortunately for PR and marketing, it is the first thing to get cut when we're in a recession, know, classically. Yeah, well, maybe we're in the same boat. It's seen as a luxury in that sense, you know, and I have to just explain what sort of PR is in that sense. PR is earned media. So advertising is one form of marketing where obviously you're paying

Guy Bloom (23:19)
See, I always think it's coaching. So there you go.

Hmm.

Francesca (23:38)
to put a billboard up, put an advert in a magazine, which sounds a bit old school now, but pay for social media advertising, we all get served adverts, right? So that's advertorial. We don't get involved in that part. Our part is very interesting because we have to help brands tell their story and we're not paying the publications or the influencers necessarily to be posting about the brand. So it's earned and I think it is...

the part that does get cut, obviously in my opinion it shouldn't get cut because it's the cheapest, easiest way for brands to keep their names out there ⁓ without spending huge amounts in advertising where they're competing against all their competitors for space and the cost per clicks now, it's expensive and they're not necessarily seeing wild returns on it. In terms of...

Guy Bloom (24:31)
And can you

trust it as well? Because you can go and buy, even I know, I can go and buy TikTok likes, I can go and buy YouTube followers, I can go and buy a million YouTube followers tomorrow for literally next to nothing. I know they're useless and I know it'll damage it, but actually in some respects, I think there are people out there that offer a service that they'll help you with your marketing, will increase.

Francesca (24:35)
yeah.

Thank

Yes.

Guy Bloom (24:59)
by A, B and C and what they're doing is they're back-channeling stuff in to go, look, we're increasing your clicks and actually you're giving us a thousand pounds, we're spending a hundred quid on actually buying you like, and we're tricking you. Not all, but I know it happens because I can feel it happening to me and I'm going, no, I can see exactly what you're doing, mate. There's no validity to those. So I think there's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on.

Francesca (25:07)
Yeah. Yeah. Yes. No.

Yeah, stop. Well, the internet can't be...

⁓ crikey, absolutely. And I think, you know, we work with celebrities and influencers a lot. ⁓ You know, and it's competitive. It's hard out there for them to even grow their audience. ⁓ And you can see who buys and who, you know, isn't necessarily authentic. And I guess that's the kind of key word with everything that we do these days. It's got to have authenticity behind it because...

Because social media is so dominant, it's very hard, like you say, for people to hide behind fake followers. I've seen influencers, when Instagram was starting, buying loads of followers. And subsequently, they've had a strategy put behind them, and they've gained real followers off the back of it. And they're some of the most successful influencers out there now. And they started out with just, yes, it was a, yeah. Well, it's a bit like.

Guy Bloom (26:05)
interesting isn't it fake it till you make it kind of thing right but also you've

got 10 million you've got 10 million followers but three comments on your click you go on how's that then yeah I'm not an expert here but I think I know what's going on

Francesca (26:14)
read comments and they're all written in other languages that you can't read. ⁓

You can see why, you know, there's kids, kids now want to grow up and become influencers. That's the thing, you know. You know, I think the way we operate is always with a human touch. So it's our industry is very people to people. You know, you've got to be very good with people. I think that's sort of

One of the big things of how we've lasted, I'd say going back to your point earlier about sort of standing back and not following the crowds wherever they're sort of going is something I've been very good at doing. You know, I let things kind of play out in front of me first. You know, we are a small business, but we do work for the biggest brands in the world. And very lucky to do so, but that's only because of our relationships, which is I think number one and most important thing across all businesses.

is having those.

Guy Bloom (27:14)
So this is bespoke

tailoring. This is Savile Row. This is, you know, don't come for us if you want off the shelf. You know, we will say as your tailor, that doesn't suit you. Actually, this would look better on you. well, we've been told, well, listen, let me just show you. You're willing to operate as, and I use this analogy a lot, and tell me if it rings true with you. If you've ever seen a Godfather film, you've got, you know,

Francesca (27:22)
Yes.

Yeah. Yes, exactly.

Guy Bloom (27:43)
Marlon Brando being the godfather, Robert de Waal who is the consigliere, the one who can offer counsel without having a bullet put in his head. And that capacity to be of counsel rather than just a service provider, that feels as if what, I I go for that and I feel that you are very much, it's not just the processes we bring, it's the who we are bringing it.

Francesca (27:50)
Yeah.

Yes. ⁓

Yes, I mean.

who we are exactly and I think you know we get to a point now as the business goes on and you get more experience you know you can talk yourself out of work as well these days you know you've got to find the right clients ⁓ you know I definitely have a tendency of just sort of ⁓ taking on pretty much anything and I can you know turn something around ⁓ but with experience you start to push back on that yourself you know it's important

Because when you do find the right clients and you gel, it's amazing what happens. ⁓ But these things take, it takes time to nurture. And I think for us, it's really important to get some lovely clients under your belt, which we have. And people that you get on with, ultimately, we are all just humans trying to navigate ourselves in this world. And everybody wants to do the best job that they can.

come across some real tyrants in my sort of tenure, in the last 10 years and trying to suss those hoodo's out before you start working with them is quite an important skill.

Guy Bloom (29:07)
It's fascinating because the clients I have, generally speaking, when I started off I'd taken any work you had. I didn't care what it was as long as it wasn't illegal. And even then I might have considered it. But the point is, know, yeah. And then now I've got brilliant clients where I've been working with them for two, three, four, five years, 10 years, whatever. And I had a, there's been a change in one of my clients and some new people have come in. And it's so lacking in humanity.

Francesca (29:13)
Yeah. Yeah.

Guy Bloom (29:37)
that I'm going to walk away from it. And that's okay, that's the privilege of somebody that isn't desperate for the money, granted, you know, if you'd have met me when I was 25, I have gone, whatever. But I think there is a point of actually, and I think what I'm hearing with you is as well, which is, I don't think my energy is going to be right. I think I'm always going to be feeling a little bit, well, I'm doing it, but I don't, when the phone goes,

Francesca (29:39)
Yeah, it's brave.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Guy Bloom (30:05)
There's a lady called Kaylee from Winvic, if you listen to this Kaylee, when the phone goes, I eagerly answer it. Not because I think there's work, because I'm gonna, oh, okay, I love speaking to her. And in fact, I'm gonna ring her up this afternoon and go, because we're not doing some work, it's a little bit like, we haven't spoken for ages, how you doing? I miss speaking to her. But I think that's key, isn't it? And they know that, you know that. And then these people go.

Francesca (30:09)
Hahaha.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That's Absolutely. Yeah.

Guy Bloom (30:30)
You want me to be a service provider. You want me to just do as I'm told. And of course I will do as I'm told in the context of the provision, but it can't be like that anymore. Do you think you get to that level where you go, I'm looking for my tribe.

Francesca (30:44)
Yes, absolutely. and you work and operate so much better once you find that. And I think sort of what you're touching on a little bit there is kind of looking at how you go over and above, just looking at work as a cash cow. Like say, like if I do this, I just extract the money and then off you go. And actually that doesn't work. You've got to have relationships. You've got to entertain. I mean, I'm probably old school in this, because I do like to be in front of people. I think a lot of people don't do that, especially...

I think the younger generations coming up in our industries, they're very much sitting behind desks and on Zoom calls still. And that's the kind of opposite of what our industry is about. It's about people making great connections and then knowing that you've got that person in your back pocket that you need them for something, or they've got you in your back pocket, whatever. But you've got those relationships there. And I'm a big believer. And I always have been, I always entertain taking people out for breakfast, lunches, dinners, drinks.

Guy Bloom (31:43)
Well, you say entertain, but you just mean humanity and being a bit human and just having social interaction. I mean, we call it this. Well, it's entertainment for the accountant. But actually, I just want to say, I'd have a cup of tea with you.

Francesca (31:47)
More.

Yeah, love a

cuppa. well, you know, I'm very, very, you know, my family also work in my business. So, you know, very family orientated person. And I think, you know, have strong values in those in that area. not everyone likes it. People like to have the distance, you know, some people

liked just to be online. Just trying to find the people who want to have a chat over a cup of tea.

Guy Bloom (32:20)
Exactly. ⁓

So let's just stick with 29 London for a minute. What is it that, you know, again, I think it's never about saying you're the best. It's about, you know, if there's an upper quartile of good and the reason I'm in it is because, right? You know, if somebody said to you, the best coach in the world, I God, I wouldn't want to say that. But I think if there's a group of goodens, I think I'm in it. You know, it's very dangerous to say anything else, rather than that. So for you as an organization,

Francesca (32:42)
Hmm.

Guy Bloom (32:55)
It's not so much what sets you apart, and maybe there is that, but what makes it that you're in that upper quartile of, yeah, we may not be a global entity strident through all organizations, but those that do work with us, what they're getting, and I think I'm hearing that personal touch, that insight, but is that?

Francesca (33:12)
Mmm.

Guy Bloom (33:22)
In terms of your processes, your systems, the way that you come at it, you know, that kind of, because I know just organizing a Sunday lunch can be complicated. So the dynamics of, because the competence has to be there, doesn't it? You could be awesome. And having a cup of tea with you is a beautiful thing. love, you've got to be good at it.

Francesca (33:33)
Yeah, yeah. It does. But if you go back to, well, I go back to, you've

got to be good at, if we go back, you know, from the beginning and look at your childhood, look at where you've come from, like, I come from a huge family. I've got 30 odd cousins. So being sociable, being personable, being organized, knowing how to put something together, especially in our industry, we do a lot of events, so.

Guy Bloom (33:45)
Hmm.

Francesca (34:02)
you know, that some of those foundations were already in place. What I've done is be able to perfect them and put them into the brands that we work with. And I think one thing that we're very passionate about is just how brands work. think personally, I'm very interested in the mechanisms of a brand, product creation, communication, storytelling, and piecing that together. And then when you see it in the press, you know, it's quite...

It's exciting because you've made that happen ⁓ for your clients. And I think really getting under the skin of brands is something I love to do. And a lot of people who work in our industry ⁓ do often want to go and create their own brands as a result of doing that. It's not something I necessarily will see myself doing, but my sister had her own brand, so we helped launch that for her.

Guy Bloom (35:00)
So

when you say have your own brand, each organisation, I mean 29 look, it is a brand, right? But when you say make a brand, what's the differential there for you?

Francesca (35:02)
Yeah.

Yes, I'm at it from a

product perspective. yes, so whether it's a drink, a product, whether it's in the drinks, health, wellness, those sort of, when I say brand, I'm thinking probably more product, consumer, lifestyle, product led. Yeah. But yes, you are a brand and as a business, you know, I think other people forget that outside of maybe our industry. So I don't know if you work in construction or something, you know.

⁓ You can still create a brand from that. You can still have your key messages. You can still have your brand values. You can still have your brand mission. You can still develop it and ⁓ execute as a brand.

Guy Bloom (35:50)
So when you have an organization that wants to run an event, be it multiple events or whatever, they often will have their own brand identity and their own narrative around a product that they've created or whatever that might be. So is it for you to go to understand what is that narrative in the...

Francesca (36:05)
Hmm.

Guy Bloom (36:11)
What does this event have to align to? What does it have to reinforce? What does it have to magnify? Or does it actually know this event may have its own narrative? I'd like to probably understand how do you kind of get to that of understand? that just a... I mean, you get a brief, but what do you need to understand for you to know that you understand it?

Francesca (36:21)
Yeah.

Yeah, and Not everybody always understands it. there's all sorts of, there is that. And I think, you this is where relationships come in, because when you work with, into a big brand team, you know, with lots of other people with different opinions, ⁓ that's the hard thing, because it's quite a, developing a brand narrative is the key part and understanding, for me, we need to understand objectives. And...

Guy Bloom (36:38)
What is that?

Francesca (37:02)
trying to develop a strategy around that and start to peel away the onion as it were for what that is and what that looks like for a brand. I think brands for me are just like people, you know, you have different personalities, you've got some people that like to wear different clothes or behave differently, speak differently and brands are the same ⁓ in that capacity. You know, how they respond, you know, what's their tone of voice.

⁓ What is it? Who is their customer? What do they look like? What's their colors of their font? What, you know, content style are they putting out? I mean, you could go into dissect a brand, even a brand you love, you know, an obvious one is Apple, you know, why do you love that brand? you know, for somebody who feels like maybe who is listening, who maybe doesn't understand brands, you know, just look across, you know, your own sort of life. Like, what are you?

wearing, what brands are you conversing with without realising it usually, because it's very subconscious. And kind of go through that process yourself, you know, look at Apple as an example, like what is it that you love about it? Is it the simplicity? Is it the clean lines? Is it the design? Is it the adverts? Is it the creativity? why do people hate it?

Guy Bloom (38:20)
why do people hate it?

because everything is like the greatest, I think Coldplay, one of the greatest bands in world. It doesn't matter. Exactly. So it doesn't matter how brilliant it is. Like some people go, like somebody took me to the ballet once and afterwards they went, what did you think? I was absolutely brilliant. Right, do you want to go again? God, no, no, I don't want to ever go again. I recognize it's brilliant, but I hated it. So you can't, again, you can't be all things to all people. There is a brand narrative to it. But are you sensitive to the fact that it only

Francesca (38:28)
Which I don't.

No, yeah.

Yeah.

Guy Bloom (38:54)
You don't want to, you want to be the enhancer and not the detractor of a thing. Is it the dilemma of anything with, you know, the beer, you know, ⁓ you know, anything, just one thing, that Jaguar advert, you know, it just takes one, it's only a single event in a massive narrative. But if the world reacts badly to it or our event, the wrong photos taken or the wrong video clip goes out.

Francesca (39:00)
Yeah.

Yes.

Guy Bloom (39:21)
We

could have process-wise done a fantastic event, but it could be a massive enhancer. there's a danger now that probably didn't exist 10 years ago or pre-internet because it wouldn't shoot off like a rabbit out of hush. So I'm fascinated by that.

Francesca (39:32)
Yeah, exactly.

Yeah,

and we have to deal with all of these problems a lot. So for instance, in the other business where we focus purely on celebrities and talent, we get, yeah, that's correct. when we have people who read the Daily Mail, which is most people, and they see the sidebar, we call it the sidebar of shame, but every...

Guy Bloom (39:52)
Global Talent Network Group.

Francesca (40:04)
Every client wants to be on that because of the eyeballs are so high So, you know a lot of those celebs stuff that we're involved in people don't really realize when you've got a celebrity You know walking out of a restaurant, you know quite often we may be part of that and It's everything is is very deliberate, you know, things don't just appear in the press You have PR teams and obviously like me all around the world doing similar jobs and trying to get a shot ⁓

So when you've got, for instance, Bella Hadid or Sienna Miller walking along the road wearing a rain mac or something, that rain mac has been put on by people I work with. everything is very deliberate. Nothing is by accident. And every brand is obviously always trying to cash in on what they can.

all of that strategy, know, this looks so effortless in a way, when on the delivery, but the bits behind the scenes to get that shot and to get that certain sort of look and feel is huge amounts of work. And sometimes, you know, you can't believe it's your job really, because it sometimes doesn't seem real. you know.

Guy Bloom (41:27)
So

AI comes into this in a way where I look at say films at the moment, Marvel films and stuff like that, and the behavior, political, not the behavior, the political perspectives of some of the actors are now infecting whether or not people are turning up to watch the films. So it used to be back in the day, you'd do the acting, you wouldn't talk about stuff like that. So it doesn't matter what your particular, what your political sort of bent is, who cares?

Francesca (41:45)
Yeah.

No.

Guy Bloom (41:56)
the reality is 50 % don't like it.

So doesn't matter which one you are, 50 % don't like it. And we live in a very, he used to be, I could be on a train, you and I would have a disagreement about something politically, but we'd go, oh, have a good journey. Now, you've got to be very careful what you say to people, because people lose their god damn minds. So it's gone very black and white. it has, that dynamic has changed. And I wonder, because when I look at AI and all over TikTok at the moment, there's this one with the Yeti or the Sasquatch, I don't know if you've seen it, but it just looks, it looks like, you know, it's like, I mean, I know it's AI, because clearly Yetis don't talk and drink beer. I get it.

Francesca (42:12)
Yeah.

I know.

Guy Bloom (42:29)
But the point is, it's bloody brilliant and we're only in the infancy of it and they're safe with that. It's not going to do anything weird, right? And I wonder if these, you know, having an event where people turn up or creating the visual images of an event that never happened.

Francesca (42:37)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, that's just mind blowing, isn't it?

Guy Bloom (42:55)
It's not that far away, is it? And some people will love that because there are accounts for social media influencers where it's an AI account. It's not even a real person. And some people will go, I love that. Others will be almost repelled by it. So we're going through this very interesting period.

Francesca (42:57)
No.

Yeah. It's an AI into it, sir. Yeah. No.

Yeah. Yes.

100 % and we're all going to get scooped up in this. It's not just the VIPs looking out for their and the influencers looking out for their image rights. That's one thing we talk a lot about in the business is image rights. How you protect image rights, what does that look like? And with the rise of AI and celebrities now being sort of cloned online, where does that leave everybody with their own rights? Who do you sort of sue?

Guy Bloom (43:22)
Hmm.

Francesca (43:47)
if you have to sue somebody for using your very complex world we're stepping into. And I think not only people in the public eye, but I think we all now need to be asking more questions about our own rights to our own images and what does that sort of look like. And that ends up because we cover sort of communication, you know, these are questions that we do ask in the business a lot.

because we're dealing with people, we're dealing with brands, and everything we're doing is publicly facing.

Guy Bloom (44:22)
Are you connecting brands to people? you the jigsaw putter-togetherer, which is clearly science, where you're going? Is it a marketing team that go, is what we want, we've already made the connections, now make the event happen? Or are you actually partly advisory in that context as well?

Francesca (44:29)
Sometimes, yeah.

Yes, exactly. Yeah, so we do sponsorship deals. So we'll bring brands together and bring stuff to brands to kind of put in front of them. we launched the Devil Wears Prada that was in the theatres in London. We just did a sponsorship deal with one of our wine brands, which was absolutely...

fantastic and that ended up becoming an in-store activity. So it fed through the whole sort of marketing mix and we get involved. I think the thing is the way we sort of operate because we're small, we get to have more eyes across the whole marketing mix to help, you know, clients not be so terrified, especially smaller businesses that are, you know, wanting to pack a punch, but they don't have huge budgets. You know, you've got to kind of figure out, where do you, where do you place your bet essentially?

what's going to give you biggest bang for your buck because marketing is so, I don't know, it's so vast. know, we've got subs...

Guy Bloom (45:46)
It's an element

of a roulette wheel, isn't it? There's many places you could put your money. But in truth, yeah, it could, as you say, it is best bet. There are no promises here.

Francesca (45:49)
fast. Yes and it is a roulette wheel. Yeah.

No, and that's what people struggle with, not experienced businesses, but middle level businesses and businesses who are trying to do more. They struggle with really understanding PR because, yes, whilst you have to pay a monthly fee, everything that PR does does build over time and adds huge amounts of value. But the way people's brains work, they often just, you know, if an SEO

guy called them up and said, if you pay me five grand a month, I'm going to get you all ... Sorry. But then you've got, I'll pay you five grand a month and I will get you a thousand visits to your websites and get all these clicks. Somebody who doesn't really know what they're doing says, you know what, that makes more sense because when you look at PR, if you paid a PR company at 5,000 pounds a month, you won't

Guy Bloom (46:29)
search engine optimization if you're listening and don't know but no no don't know

Francesca (46:54)
get a thousand clicks, okay? It's not how it works. However, when you know the industry, the SEO guy is putting your website all over the place in no valuable marketing spots. PR is gonna put you right in front of the customer, so it might cost you 5,000 to get that one hit, but that's gonna be directly where you need the hit. marketing. Yeah, going back to strategy again.

Guy Bloom (47:17)
So is this long game and short game? this, you've got a hit of

a launch and something, it's got to have an immediate reaction versus actually you need to be in the public space, people need to become familiar with it, it needs to be something that actually, yeah.

Francesca (47:24)
Yeah.

is peer.

Hmm. It takes time. That's the problem.

And SEO search engine optimization is, you I think it's changing actually. Now the rise of AI and everything else is coming up and moving things out of the way. But, you know, so many brands will come to, you know, especially founders come to me and say, oh, you know, we've already spent X amount of money and it's, it's incredible how people don't do their research. What's that? Yeah.

Guy Bloom (47:55)
So this is trust. This is trust, isn't it? Because I'm now

in a position where I would go, before I look behind the curtain.

If you offered me clicks, I'd go, right, and I presume you have integrity. But now I don't know if you do, not you personally, clearly, anybody else. I would go, are you an integrity-led search engine optimization company where it will be genuine, or are you going to ask me to pay 5,000 pounds and then you spend 1,000 on sending clicks to my site and then validate that you've done it? Because I don't know enough.

Francesca (48:08)
Hmm.

Yeah, then you'll get a lot of paperwork and then you'll say,

I've got no sales. And then here we go.

Guy Bloom (48:28)
Bingo, yeah, well that's not us then, is it?

That's your product and that's your, maybe if you did even more. So actually, you've got to, this really then comes down to, I've got to look at Francesca and go, not only, it's not what you're saying and what you're offering. I have to look at your client list and go, well.

Francesca (48:44)
Hmm.

Guy Bloom (48:47)
those people operate at a level, there has to be a credibility by association piece here because those people would not be spending this time or this money with this individual. And I have to spend time with you and go, I like the cut of her jib, I trust her, I trust the mechanism. I can see that she's not just trying to sell to me, she's trying to make it more than just taking my money. She has insight, she has wisdom, she cares. She would invest in me more than probably I'm paying for.

Francesca (48:56)
Yeah.

Yes. That's the key thing. Yeah. And I think that's it. And I think you do have to be, your business does need to be at a level to receive PR because PR does, you know, it doesn't necessarily, traditionally PR has no direct correlation to sales and people struggle with that. Okay. And I understand. Yeah.

Guy Bloom (49:17)
That feels as if that's the deal.

somebody's eye twitched on my doesn't it.

Francesca (49:42)
Yeah, and I can see why, it's not the purpose of it. ⁓ The purpose is for brand awareness, ⁓ It's to make sure your brand or your business is front of mind all the time. But PR can be very useful, I think, for smaller companies, especially who are operating within different regions. if you're more regionally based, I don't know if you're a plumber or something, I think stuff like that.

PR is really, really, really fruitful. And so is potentially SEO if you get a good search engine optimization company that can really locate, you know,

Guy Bloom (50:22)
there's a difference between

trying to be the plumber in your 20 mile radius, where if you live in Bromsgrove in the West Midlands and it's plumbing services Bromsgrove and you've got that as a domain of plumbing services bromsgrove.com, the chances are you'll be, but if you try to be national, now it's a whole different, it's a whole different thing. Yeah, it's fascinating, isn't it?

Francesca (50:28)
Yeah.

It's a whole different ballgame.

Guy Bloom (50:47)
Right, well listen, you know, and I think I've said this on out of the 140 odd podcasts, not all of them, but about 120 of them I've said with a bottle of wine and a pizza, I could keep going for the next four or five hours and you'd have to eventually go, I've got a job to do, I've got to go. He said an hour, what the hell are we still doing?

Francesca (50:59)
I know the time's just flew.

Guy Bloom (51:08)
So this has been great because again, you know, this is, you know, I'll put how to contact you. And if somebody does want to reach out to you, Francesca, if somebody says, because this isn't about, you know, this was never about you going, hey, come and work with me. I just wanted to talk to you. You've been gracious enough to come on. But if somebody listens to this and goes, that's the kind of character I would like to talk to. Where do they reach out?

Francesca (51:32)
Well, ⁓ my website, 29-london.com or theglobaltalentnetworkgroup.com or I'm on Instagram, like everybody, you can message me directly. ⁓ It's francescad29.

Guy Bloom (51:34)
Yep.

Bingo.

and watch your Instagram.

Okay, well we'll put that stuff in there as well. So listen, just thank you. You know, I love this, it was just fun, it was easy. And I always find that if you're speaking to somebody that knows what they're talking about, it's easy, right? And it doesn't have to be scripted, you can just chat away. When I'm talking to somebody that I go, ⁓ you'd like to operate in this space, but you clearly don't know a lot about it, that's always painful. But when I've got somebody who knows their shizzle.

Francesca (51:51)
We'll link it in.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Guy Bloom (52:19)
We just bounce around because you're not fearful of any of the topics. You don't, and I can see straight away that you, you know, and that's what I wanted you on the podcast, you know. So listen, awesome. You've been an absolute rock star. Thank you so much for coming on. Stay on for a few minutes just to make sure everything uploads. But other than that, you've been an absolute joy.

Francesca (52:36)
Well thank you Guy, I really appreciate it and you're doing an amazing job so keep coaching because we need good coaches like you.

Guy Bloom (52:47)
we'll figure it out. All right, take care.

Francesca (52:47)
Yeah,

thank you.