Leadership BITES
Leadership BITES
Rob Oxley, The Road To Platinum
In this episode of Leadership Bites, Rob Oxley, Head of HR, UK for John Sisk and Son Ltd, talks with Guy Bloom about the journey of achieving and maintaining the Platinum Investors in People (IIP) certification.
Rob shares insights into the importance of external validation, the role of reflection in continuous improvement, and the engagement of senior leadership in the process. He emphasises that the motivation behind pursuing IIP is not merely to obtain a badge, but to genuinely enhance the organisation's 'people and culture' strategy.
The conversation also touches on the significance of leadership development and the interconnectedness of various initiatives within the organisation.
Takeaways
- The journey to IIP Platinum status is an ongoing journey.
- External validation is a huge enabler for organisational culture.
- Reflection on past successes and failures is key to continuous improvement.
- Engaging senior leadership is essential for the success of IIP initiatives.
- Platinum status indicates exceptional performance across multiple indicators.
- Maintaining IIP status requires continuous improvement and adaptation.
- Leadership development programs are vital for bridging gaps in management skills.
- HR should enable and support organisational success rather than dictate it.
- Celebrating achievements and acting on feedback is crucial for growth.
Sound Bites
- "You can't hide. You can't try and frame this."
- "We have to show continuous improvement."
- "It's not to get another shiny badge."
- "It's not just press repeat."
- "We don't do things in isolation."
- "It's about incentivising people to really get on board."
- "It's a beautiful thing."
- "It's a heck of a process."
To find out more about Guy Bloom and his award winning work in Team Coaching, Leadership Development and Executive Coaching click below.
The link to everything CLICK HERE
UK: 07827 953814
Email: guybloom@livingbrave.com
Web: www.livingbrave.com
Guy Bloom (00:00.314)
everybody that were professional. on that note, Rob, how are you? And fantastic to have you on this episode of Leadership Bytes. Welcome.
Rob Oxley (00:10.84)
Thank you very much, nice to be here.
Guy Bloom (00:13.052)
So Rob, you know, we know each other a little bit from the past and I just want to introduce you to the people that are listening. just, you know, you're at a barbecue and somebody said, what do you do for a living? You know, just introduce yourself.
Rob Oxley (00:27.694)
Yeah, so my name is Rob Oxley. I'm head of HR for the CISC Which is basically, that's garbage. I'm already garbling. This is not helpful
Guy Bloom (00:37.566)
You're thinking about it too much, Rob.
Rob Oxley (00:41.294)
I am thinking about it too much. This is mad. Oh god. I know what I'm going to be to. Oh Jesus.
Guy Bloom (00:47.006)
Let's start again. But listen, honestly, this becomes... We'll have a few goes, we'll see where we are, and then if necessary we'll have a dry run. It's just that I've been doing this for years now, so I've got the gobbledygook out of my system.
Rob Oxley (01:04.403)
It would be fine when we get into a flow.
Guy Bloom (01:06.6)
We'll get straight into a flow. So just go, hey, listen, I'm Rob Oxley. I'm just head of HR for Sysc. For those of you that don't know who Sysc are, we're a... Okay, so let's start again. So, Rob, great to have you on this episode of Leadership Bytes. Welcome.
Rob Oxley (01:14.978)
Yeah.
Rob Oxley (01:24.61)
Thanks, Guy. no, delighted to be part of this.
Guy Bloom (01:27.25)
Well, you know, I've, you know, very excited to reach out to people that I either know or have something just happened that I'm interested in and you're somebody I know and something's happened that I'm interested in, which we'll get to in just a second. But just to introduce yourself to listeners, Rob, just tell us who you are and what you do.
Rob Oxley (01:45.291)
My name's Rob Oxley, I'm head of the HR team for the UK business of John Siskin Sun Ltd. We're an Irish family owned building contractor with about 2,500 employees across the group.
Guy Bloom (01:57.703)
OK, and, you know, I saw on LinkedIn, which is where I seem to spend a ridiculous amount of time just sort of mooching and looking at things, that CISC had achieved the Platinum IIP certification. So the investors in people. And that just immediately triggered a kind of I would love to have a conversation just about what it means and just.
just, I guess, the journey to it. So with that in mind, Rob, you know, was IIP something that you already had? Was it a journey from the start? Were you kicking off from already being a bronze or a silver or something along those lines? Just, you know, where did it start and what was the catalyst to say, let's go for that next level?
Rob Oxley (02:47.15)
Yeah, that's a, it's been a long journey and a really positive journey, I would say over the last, I would say 12 to 15 years. So I joined CISC back in 2012. We'd already kind of started engagement in the year or two prior to me joining and we secured basically IIP accreditation at just a standard level. I say just a standard level, but that's the kind of entry point really where you first start the journey.
I guess it's really kind of...
gone bananas since then really in a really positive way. We've got the same assessor, a chap called Bruce McCray. He's great fun, great fun, and he has this amazing ability of unlocking conversations with our people, which means that one of the great things and the reasons why we continue to invest in investors and people is because we get Bruce as well, and Bruce comes into our organisation every three years when we go through the accreditation process.
process. He does a little interim check halfway through as well to check we're making progress and to kind of point challenge us along the way. But he knows the organisation fantastically well. So it's that external validation point of having someone come into the organisation, stick their nose in, speak to a hundred people ranging from document controllers, office managers to regional directors to our CEO, to get really under the skin of what we do.
and that's kind of why we continue I think is that it gives us a really good flavour as to how our people and culture strategy is actually landing in the organisation. There's one thing us being able to I guess run employee engagement surveys ourselves but there's an entirely other thing when you're bringing someone external from outside the organisation in to really have a good lift up of that bonnet and have a check as to how things are going.
Guy Bloom (04:47.198)
So this is this kind of, if nothing else, even if it wasn't IIP, there's something massively valuable about you can't see the back of your own head and having just an external person come in and I guess give a line of sight on things.
Rob Oxley (04:59.81)
Definitely, definitely.
It's through a series of different interventions. We do a self-assessment upfront which we basically provide evidence as to where we feel we meet the standards and the indicators that are set out in IIP. Then Bruce effectively goes into the business, we run a survey and all our employees across the UK business will respond. Then Bruce will take the themes from the survey and the self-assessment that we do.
and then validate that or not, as the case may be, in one-to-one interviews across a number of our different projects. So it does exactly that. enables us to get under the skin of the initiatives that we're rolling out from CENTER, from HR, that we desperately need people's buy-in, but it actually tells us, is this actually landing? And Bruce's conversations enable us to get that realisation, I guess.
Guy Bloom (05:57.961)
So it feels like, to some respects, an audit, and I guess a kind of a diagnostic all in one. Is it something then that has... Does it require conscious thinking over that three-year period leading up to this that says, actually, in fact let me word that better, does knowing that you're doing IIP affect the way that you work?
Rob Oxley (06:30.618)
I would say no because what I've found incredibly valuable about going through the IOP process actually is the reflection piece. We're very good in our organisation and think organisations generally are very good at this, of reacting and moving on and looking forward rather than back. We don't reflect on our past triumphs if you want to call it that, the success stories and one of the great things about the accreditation process because the fact it comes every three years
is, it provokes you to look back as well as looking forward. And what didn't land? Why didn't it land? Since the last time we spoke to Bruce, the last time he came into the organisation. So we can get to see and hear where perhaps we can tweak our approach and then kind of take a step forward.
It doesn't shape the way we operate, absolutely not. Bruce comes in, he tests, he understands, he seeks to understand from us within the HR team and the wider business the things that we're trying to roll out and then just gives us a really honest view across a number of those, the structure, the kind of pillars of the Investing in People model, where we are stacking up and whether it's where we think we are or actually there's a slightly different story.
Guy Bloom (07:51.263)
So you're getting a kind of red amber green almost on. We think we're doing X, Y and Z. But actually this is an independent person that says yes, that action that you think is creating that impact it is all the way through to. And if you are, I can't see it or I actually don't know if you are. So do you get to read, do you get to evidence something that maybe he hasn't picked up on or?
you sometimes realise, oh blimey, that's a really good observation, we haven't hit the mark there. Or actually, no, I think we are, but we just haven't maybe shown you that. How does that kind of play out?
Rob Oxley (08:25.182)
Well, there's all of that actually that goes on. So Bruce will prod and poke. I provide a good chunk of data to validate what I think is where we are and the progress we're making. He won't just take it as though the data points I'm providing him are, you know, this is the way it's landing within the business. He will then prod and poke senior leaders. He'll check for consistency in terms of the way the message is being told, the story is being kind of shared.
and whether it's a lived and breathed experience out on our projects.
Yeah, we've got a number of positive indicators. wouldn't think we'd get to invest in people platinum status without having some real demonstrable change in our people and culture strategy and having delivered things. actually, his kind of questions really get us to unpick and it lets him unpick why perhaps some of our initiatives haven't landed quite as we would have liked. And you come back to us with some
There's absolutely light bulb moments each time he comes back following a review and we sit down and we talk and he very clearly can articulate where perhaps some of the barriers to some of our strategies are and how we might overcome them. There's a conversation, a free-flowing conversation. It makes it sound like it's a once every three years gig, it's a bit more than that and we test our progress with him along the way.
And the other thing I'll just quickly say as well, which is really important actually, is we bring him into some of our, Bruce this is, some of our key activities through the year. So for example, we have road shows which roll out every year. Our CEO, senior leadership team, and a myriad of other people stand up, talk, and we have a two-way conversation. We get inputs from all of the other employees that are in attendance. Great feedback mechanism. He comes into those.
Rob Oxley (10:29.732)
he hears the stories that senior leaders are saying and telling and then he can when he's assessing he can really understand you know whether that's actually becoming a reality.
Guy Bloom (10:40.84)
So that's quite useful, isn't it? Rather than him, rather than the show pony of, right, he's coming to do a visit, him having more of a finger on the pulse for the genuineness of and the reality of as opposed to, I'm here for a finite amount of time. You know, the, you know, the King thinks the world smells of paint kind of thing, because there's somebody three feet ahead of him, you painting everything. So it kind of, that helps him trust or know the reality of it. Yeah. Yeah, concert.
Rob Oxley (10:49.422)
That's it.
Rob Oxley (11:06.796)
Yes, absolutely. And the fact that he's kind of reaching out to everybody and anybody in the business, we don't choose who he speaks to. He'll obviously speak to some of the kind of the key influential people, like the CEO, the COO, the business unit managing directors, some of our quite influential people in our support functions. He'll always talk to those individuals, but we can't select who within our business he goes and meets on a site. So it's a really
It could be anybody and everybody that he speaks to, which gives us a, you can't hide. You can't try and frame this. And that, I think, makes it an even more validating type of process that you know that what's coming from is the truth.
Guy Bloom (11:58.583)
Do you have a sense of what, sorry, better question. I used to edit me not asking good questions out, but I've decided to just leave them in so I can, it's okay just to course correct as you go. So in terms of the senior team, getting them on board, easy to do at the start, yeah they were already there, or actually, you know what, no there might be a few people that need a bit of convincing that this is something to put some energy into.
Rob Oxley (12:27.554)
Definitely, initially I would say a little bit of a challenge but once Bruce, and obviously you'd expect with most organisations, people leave so while you may have had a massive advocate in the boardroom one year, that person may depart and you've got to influence another set of stakeholders which can be quite challenging but I think when they meet Bruce and they hear his story and the way he's built up his knowledge
over the years, very, very quickly. He can put into a very simple language through his knowledge and experience of our organisation.
you know, why his role in this process and why IAP is so important to us. Now, there's obviously benefits to the organisation from a retention perspective, from an attraction perspective in terms of employees, potential employees seeing this badge that we have, but that's not really the reason we do this. It also helps from a work-winning perspective. So, you when we go into tenders and we're submitting our work-winning kind of proposals,
you
It absolutely helps having investors in people platinum badge, that's not really, that's not the motivator for this. The motivator for this is, as I've explained, is very much seeing, is our people and culture strategy landing? What else can we do that we haven't got our eyes on? You know, might be something over here that's making a bit of noise that we weren't aware of that's stopping us or a block or a barrier that we need to unlock. And that's not.
Rob Oxley (14:08.238)
coming from a badge that's coming from Bruce and from his views of how we're landing things in the organisation.
Guy Bloom (14:18.174)
So you're not chasing an award. So I've won awards when I've done delivery with my programs. And you can't, and I will sometimes get clients go, I'd like to win an award. I go, well, I hear you, but don't chase it. Let's do something that we're proud of, that we think's awesome. And then, you know, we'll see where we are. And we'll consider entering an award. So the motivation's got to be there. So I hear that. And it feels as if there's lots of
outputs from it that add value. If I'm looking to join I go, if they've got IIP that does mean something. If I'm looking to give you business it says culturally you've got to be at a certain level. So if you were going to, and it's not differentiate between all levels because people can google it, but what is platinum saying that some of the other levels might not be?
Rob Oxley (14:52.29)
Definitely.
Rob Oxley (15:14.328)
Platinum is basically saying that we are, across their indicators, performing exceptionally strongly. And that we do this self-assessment at the start point where we kind of say that we think we're platinum status and these are all the areas where we think we're succeeding. And we have to evidence that. High performing to me, which is what is effectively their top bar across those nine indicators.
has, it covers a wide kind of breadth of topics such as leadership, such as living your values, such as innovation, you know, not sitting still. And that's the thing that perhaps I haven't touched on is the fact that we've retained platinum status. So we actually became platinum back in 2021. So it's even harder, and my understanding is to hold on to that status.
Guy Bloom (16:08.839)
Rob Oxley (16:11.776)
once you've got it because it means obviously you have to show continuous improvement. You can't just rest on your laurels. So I guess yeah it's a real broad
church or a model with those nine indicators that means that the values have got to be lived and breathed, they've got to be role modelled by your senior leaders. You've got to constantly be evolving, thinking, looking ahead and as an organisation showing that you're not necessarily, not everything has to be leading edge here. At SISC we are, we like to think we're fairly progressive but it doesn't mean that you have to be.
on the forefront of every single HR initiative that's coming out the traps. But what you do do is actually impacting and actually your people are talking about the workplace is somewhere they really want to be and they're generally excited about it.
Yeah, and I think things like talent management, succession planning, providing really clear, not just means of tracking individuals, but what are we actually doing with those individuals that's helping them progress? What opportunities are we presenting to them on the back of, let's say, doing some succession planning processes?
And then thinking to ourselves, well, OK, we have a people and culture strategy which we were launching three years ago. I think the difference now, if we come on three years, is the way that we're trying to get, for example, our senior leaders to buy into that strategy. So we've taken a completely different approach to that. And again, that's borne out through one of the indicators is around how understood is our strategy more broadly across the business and how deeply is it understood.
Rob Oxley (18:06.608)
So from a leadership perspective, it needs to cascade and we've invested the last three years, I would say, terms of really moving into continuing that journey in high performing. I would say it's absolutely largely down to how we have brought our senior leaders along the journey in terms of driving our strategy and then cascading ownership within the business.
Guy Bloom (18:32.914)
I'm really interested in that. There's a lot of fads in any industry, in any market, in any place. It's easy to get sucked into the newest thing. there is, if you do any sort of sport, what generally happens is the people that are excellent aren't doing clever things. They're doing basics really, really well. They understand the foundations of what they're doing.
And so there's something here, what I'm hearing is, yeah, we might pay attention, of course, to what's going on in the world, but actually don't be overpowered by the newest thing. Actually, if you're going to drive it into the business.
make sure that people have understood it, they can work with it, they can use it, it's actually part of their language, it's not just a course that they've been on, it's actually transferred into their vocabulary, which would be an indicator that it's real. You know, all of these kind of things which, in theory, somebody once said to me, actually Guy, the complexity is in the simplicity.
Rob Oxley (19:37.13)
Sorry I've lost a bit of the... Let's do... ...pump it, she's...
Guy Bloom (19:38.003)
That's all right. No, no, you're like, you haven't moved, so you're light-weared. Brilliant. dear. So, and I think that's really true. I come across this all the time, you know, and I get it sometimes when I'm going to do delivery for somebody in organization and they go, well, what's new? I go, well, we can have that conversation. But before we get to what's new, are you people doing the things that are actually...
you know, in essence, just required. And I think that's probably the biggest thing, you know, let's not do handbrake turns in the car if your people can't park it yet. You know.
Rob Oxley (20:12.75)
And I think that's a really great point because...
If I go back when I first joined about 12 years ago, we're probably not that dissimilar to many other organisations in the construction sector and I use this as hopefully quite a good example. People generally have got promoted at CISC historically through technical competence, technical brilliance and we've got very highly skilled, hugely talented civil engineers and quantum surveyors and building service managers in this business who have done fantastically well, driven projects incredibly
to be well, got fantastic output, incredible legacy. But one thing they never had, and that's on us, is we've not tooled them up to be a manager or a leader. And so about 2017, I think it was 2017, 2018 if I remember correctly, myself and one of my colleagues developed a management leadership development programme.
That's where you and I actually first, I think, first met Guy. But we basically realised that the technical competence piece wasn't an issue. It's really all about now as people progress, they need those interpersonal skills. They need to be able to manage people and understand what good looks like and bad looks like in this space.
And we went through this massive exercise, big gap analysis, going through performance review ratings and scores to identify the gaps, built the programme, three tiers called Elevate, Management Leadership Development Programme, Manage for first line managers, Lead for middle managers and Inspire for senior leaders. And we pushed through a number of cohorts each year, which ultimately is bridging that gap, is helping our managers and leaders
Rob Oxley (21:59.572)
been self-appointed through technical brilliance to come up to that level to have equally strong people skills. Now the reason I say this in relation to investors and people is number one that's a great evidence of us you know looking at a real gap in our armory addressing any critical issue which was retention at the time and putting the focus on the line mergers who play such a critical part in for me in that whole
employee experience. For me, that old adage of line managers, people leave line managers, I firmly believe that. so that's, the Elevate programme I think is a great, it's been a great story for us and we're continually evolving it. It's one of the things that from an Investors and People perspective.
something is not particularly radical in its thinking or its structure and you could probably go into other organisations that have management leadership programmes and you see something relatively similar but I would say it's
It's actually made a huge difference in terms of our culture, where people are starting to prioritise, or certainly prioritising, the importance of their interrelationships with people. And that ultimately feeds our culture of care, which is one of our three values, which is where people feel that they're invested in, they've got that level of support around them, and also our philosophy of a no-limits career, where ultimately, doesn't matter where you are in the organisation, you can look to be a
a form of yourself, whether you're a document controller or you're climbing the hierarchy to become the next CEO. All of that in that programme, what that enables us to do is a manager to have a simple conversation, a check-in, a more frequent dialogue, whether it's about someone's career, whether it's about their wellbeing, and that's what we feel really creates the right environment and the right culture for people to want to flourish and just to come into work and enjoy themselves.
Guy Bloom (24:01.502)
There's so much there, really. One of the things I hear there is when HR is great, it doesn't dictate, it enables, and it sees, I wouldn't say it just sees gaps, but it works with the organisation to say, are you trying to go? What are you trying to do? Okay, where is it easy? Where is it hard? Where is it not working? What can we do that can make that easier? And as you say, putting a leadership development programme in, that's not really the issue, technically.
You you can just go and say, hey, but of course, it's got to be the right kind of content, the right kind of facilitation team. It's got to resonate with people in terms of a language that they understand. They've got to feel as if the rest of the business is paying attention to it. It's not just a training course. It's actually something that has a strategic imperative, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And these are all little jigsaw pieces that independently each one of them is fine. But if they all connect up to a purpose.
then you're getting great HR, you're actually feeling, well, it's not really HR, is it? It's just something I need. It's not, you know, et cetera, et It's not being done to me. It's not a requirement. I mean, yes, it is, but at the same time, you know, actually, gosh, I'm glad I went on it. And then all of these things. So I was going to ask you a question actually about where you see IIP in the business, but really that's not it, is it? It's really where IIP sees the business doing what it does best.
sees what's going on and actually aligns it to some indicators of what good looks like. So it's not that you're installing IIP, it's that you're doing good work and IIP is referencing what good looks like.
and then is able to say to you almost as, you from that lens, yeah, we can see that actually you're hitting those points. I think I've just reflected on that and that's where I've got to with a, I don't know if I've understood that correctly, but I think I, you know.
Rob Oxley (25:54.487)
Yeah.
You definitely have, and that's exactly it. So we don't sit here every three years, wait for Bruce to roll in, tell us what we're doing right and tell us what we're doing wrong, and then hold ourselves up and use the IIP model as a map to our success. That's just not what we do. Now, IIP may not, prefer me not to say that, but what it does is it actually, it gives us that stamp that we need, we feel we need to give us validation that we're,
we're genuinely making progress in our people and culture strategy. That's what's really important and that SISC is a great place to work. That's fundamentally what our drivers are. It's not to get another shiny badge to stick on our email signature. It's really, it's all about validating everything that we think of what we're doing internally and actually giving us some external kind of verification that yes, we're on the right path. We're definitely on the right path.
you
Guy Bloom (26:58.998)
So somebody once said to me, it's really hard to stay still in fast moving water, which I think is a great phrase. And I didn't realize actually that you'd already got platinum and that you'd maintained it. So it's a little bit like a Michelin star and then having to keep it, right? That's the way I'm looking at it. I have to put everything into something a bit more simple so I can say, but that's it, isn't it? Because you know, or it's like a world champion athlete getting to the level, getting there, mean, kudos and tick.
Rob Oxley (27:18.03)
I like that. I like that.
Guy Bloom (27:26.78)
maintaining it, staying at that level, well really that's the challenge isn't it, to maintain it. And that's also factoring in that the organisation isn't static, the market isn't static, the population isn't static. So it's not just press repeat is it?
Rob Oxley (27:45.294)
No, not at all. I think that's something that's probably more of a nod to both our HR team and the wider organisation. And when I say that, also say we're quite an agile organisation for an organisation that's been around since 1859.
There are certain roles that are basically, because of innovation, because of the changing world of technology within construction, that have cropped up over the last three, five years. It's very different place construction now to where it was three to five years ago. And our board, very forward thinking, when it came to, we've got a breaking new ground strategy, which is coming into its third year of existence.
and the people and culture strategy is one of five strands within the Breaking New Ground strategy. But when the genesis of the Breaking New Ground strategy was absolutely forward looking, what are the big five areas that we really need to focus on, looking externally. It was a brilliant piece of work and actually very visionary from our CEO, Paul Brown. He basically identified and crossed a number of those indicators from an AI.
perspective when he set about developing this breaking new ground strategy. We have five themes and he attached a working group to each one of those five themes with responsible leads from across the business attached to those five strategic themes.
Myself and one of my colleagues, Brendan Morris, we were responsible leads for the Pregnant Culture Strategy. And just by way of example, we then took that project, no pre-existing views from anybody about how we would say, it's a three year strategy, go away Rob and Brenda, pull together a working group, develop a strategy, and looking outwards, looking inwards, spoke to nearly 40 % of our whole organisation through surveys and focus groups.
Rob Oxley (29:50.304)
to the family members, went externally, to some clients, spoke to competitors, spoke to forward thinking organisations, spoke to their HR teams, pulled in a whole, this took a nine month period, pulled all of this in, came up with a proposed strategy, got it validated by the construction board and then into what they call the SICOM board which has got family members and non-execs.
And long story short, that became our strategy for the next three years. Now multiply that up by the five different pillars of our Breaking New Ground strategy. And you've got five responsible leads or payers of who are in the succession plan. So you're giving visibility to people who are essentially going to be potentially future leaders in the organisation to the board and the wider organisation, which is great. Huge stretch for those individuals as well. So again, from an investors and people perspective, you're putting a spotlight on
from people who are growing in the organisation. You're giving them real tangible responsibility for the future of the business and you're giving them visibility so that their progression is being set. So it's just an example, guess, where some of the forward thinking thoughts of our CEO and our board has cascaded into when you layer on the investors and people accreditation to that. ticks, I mean, probably nine of the nine indicators in terms of that.
body of work itself because it's got those threads woven through it as a project as a whole. So sorry that was a long answer but...
Guy Bloom (31:24.574)
No, I think it's great, because when I listen to people talk, I think one of the things I try to understand is whether or not somebody applied a formula, which is, you know, sometimes, yeah, there is a process to a thing, of course, but also whether or not it's a passion. And generally speaking, a passion and a formula get you going in the right direction, because if you're passionate with no formula, good luck.
And you've got a formula but no passion. Let me know how it works out for you. So when I hear those two things flowing at the same time, and what I really hear is that as an organization, there's something going on about this being very real, this whole dynamic of, we're a commercial enterprise. We're not just here for the good of mankind, though that's a beautiful thing. But at the same time, people.
You know, and all of those things are very easy to talk about. Very often, I think, the indicator that it might not be quite as healthy as you would think is when they're all independent activities, which generally tells me it's a tick box exercise. Now that can be doing a little bit of a disservice to good work done in independent areas.
But then at the very least, it's not a kind of tribe. It's not a hive mind mentality. It's not that, okay, this is what we're about. And that then shifts, I think, when people come into contact with an organisation. I think people can tell independent activity, which means, yeah, process competence, and that's not a bad thing. But no, this is what we're about. And I think that's what you've just described.
Rob Oxley (33:04.352)
I think that's a nicely summarised version of what I've said. We don't do things in isolation, which I think is something that we used to do maybe five, ten years ago. If you were to take a lens through Sesk you'd probably see little bits of initiatives going on here, a few initiatives over here, not very well linked, no kind of overall structure, strategy across it. That's one of great things I'd say. I mentioned the Breaking New ground strategy that was the five pillars, the five
kind of strategic priorities. Well we didn't do those in isolation. We had regular catch-ups with all of the responsible leads to make sure that there were what were the synergies that were what consistencies how we're going to communicate this plan how we're going to embed it you know and what that that enables exactly what you're talking about it enables the interconnectivity between all of those activities so it's a seamless approach one kind of comms one brand almost internally through breaking new ground.
and it prevents that isolation of or pockets of independent activity I would say.
Guy Bloom (34:13.564)
And yeah, and I think that means when somebody comes in, either as a new member of the team or as an independent observer, their hearing way, they're seeing that kind of unified approach. Therefore, you interviewed me for the job and you said it would be like this. And when I come in, it is. And actually, as an external observer, when I come into, the want of a better word, audit, it's clearly not a facade. And maybe, you know, without knowing, because I haven't...
done the IIP, but maybe that's one of those platinum things, which is maybe the difference between platinum and gold is the fact that it's embedded, it's the vocabulary, it's maybe not fundamentally a differential, but by golly these so-and-so's are living it, breathing it, because actually all the things we've just spoken about.
Rob Oxley (34:52.43)
Absolutely.
Rob Oxley (35:00.022)
And I'm sure there are organisations that Bruce and others go into, other assessors for IAP go into and you get the big kind of facade up front from an HR person or someone else within the business explaining, look these are all the great things that we do. if the assessor will see straight through that very, very quickly and they can tell often to your point, you mentioned the word passion I think earlier and one of the things that's really important is that people can put their own language
to this, and we talk about this breaking new ground strategy, but that's one of the things that's really important is they have, everyone has like an elevator pitch basically, so they can articulate what this strategy is, whether it's internally or externally. So it produces this very consistent drumbeat of, know, what are we trying to achieve here? And the vernacular, the language that people use is very similar, but it has their own personal sways.
to it, which makes it quite impactful, I'd say.
Guy Bloom (36:03.934)
Yeah, and the more people talk about it, the more the language becomes normalized and people aren't uncomfortable with the vocabulary. And I think you can tell when somebody's saying it because they've been told to. And the fact that it's in your natural parlance, it is in the way that you consider things. So that would again be a key indicator straight away between, well, you clearly know what you're saying, but it doesn't feel as if it's you saying it. And I think there's a difference between those.
Rob Oxley (36:16.653)
Yeah.
Rob Oxley (36:33.416)
But I think there is, and if I think about even how we've managed to get that breaking new ground strategy to stick within the organisation and really for people to buy into, it's about...
It's about incentivising people to really get on board as well. when I say that, we've launched last year as part of the People and Culture Strategy some torch bearer awards which are basically recognition awards done by a business unit to show where people have to put forward a case individually and as a team where they've lived and they've breathed and they've driven one of our strands, one of our five strategic priorities.
they've showcased it. Now what then comes on the back of that is for the individuals is a nice four figure award. But the big thing for me, two big things are one is sat in front of their peers at these road shows, their name is put up in spotlights, their message is articulated about what they've driven. So loads of peer recognition which is brilliant. Then the next piece which is some people would say is really, most people would say is a really positive thing, some may say they'd be less keeping.
it was a day with our construction board at the end of the year where they got to spend a day on one of our projects and then in a room with our construction board members talking about various different things around the strategy and having a voice. So we're thinking very carefully about how people own the message, how they articulate in their own language, running workshops to help them to do that and understand it,
supporting on progress so that people understand that we are making meaningful change here and we're recognising people who are actually showcasing and really role modelling the torch bearers of our strategy in itself. yeah, don't know, it's kind of woven in as I said before, it's woven into a lot of different things that we do to make it part of our fabric.
Guy Bloom (38:39.422)
It's a beautiful thing. It is, I can see it and I can feel it. And I think that's lovely for me to see. In this space, it is very easy to come across HR communities where it is not a passion, it is an administrative function and people are...
Rob Oxley (38:44.621)
Yeah.
Guy Bloom (38:59.79)
submissive to senior, I don't mean being in service and of service, but they're submissive to just the obedience of being in essence an administrator, which is very different to what you're talking about, which is being a true peer level business partner, where actually what we're doing is we can actually say that we are an absolutely relevant piece of the success of this organisation. You know, as if we are, you know, we're one of those jigsaw pieces.
And we can see how it and I think that's that's that's amazing to say. So just, you know, I'm alert to time and, know, one of the things I always see on these podcasts with a bottle of wine and a pizza, I keep you talking for the whole evening to the point where you said I want to go home. if I was an HR lead and I was looking at IIP, any any top tips, any kind of mental notes to sell for? Listen, having ridden this horse before, you know, if you're trying to
Rob Oxley (39:40.138)
Okay.
Guy Bloom (39:57.427)
go on that journey, here's a few things to think about.
Rob Oxley (40:00.174)
Yeah, I think number one and you've probably got from my earlier comments. It is not a short-term thing So, you know to really get the benefit of the kind of validation process You desperately want to get the same assessor point one Bruce is brilliant, by the way big plug for him. But secondly
Guy Bloom (40:21.234)
I'll put a link to Bruce in the description of the podcast. I feel he should have a link to his LinkedIn, which I've already seen him on LinkedIn, but I will will link to him.
Rob Oxley (40:30.058)
He's brilliant. But I suppose all I'm saying is that regardless of who the assessor is, to have that over a period of time and commit not just to a three year window, the value comes fine. The first three years is great. They'll give you a view. But it's then building up that bank of knowledge in the assessor so they can understand the journey that you as a business are going on, so that they can comment.
clearly about the progress that they, the demonstrable progress that they can see and feel when they're in your organisation. So I would say stick with it and commit to it for a period of time. Other tips I would say get close to the assessor and share everything. Don't give them the good news, don't just give them the positives. Tell them some of the things that aren't working, some of the things that you tried that perhaps failed and because the assessor will pick that up when they go around so there's no point
trying to present a different situation. Just be straight up and use it as a process. Think about, obviously you want a nice badge, don't get me wrong, but what's more important is that you get some, seize the opportunity to get some impartial, you know.
untempered advice and guidance from someone who knows what they're talking about and it's validated by your people. you know for me going with open eyes and being as brutally honest as you as you can be because your people will be themselves.
And then I would say celebrate it. So one thing that is really important is that once you, thank obviously all the people who've invested their time in the process, because there's quite a few of them, but then celebrate the result at the end of the journey. it's, whatever level of accreditation is, it's a heck of a process. And then it's really about how do you weave in the recommendations that come.
Rob Oxley (42:20.866)
come out of the other end. So don't just get the badge, tick the box, because we wouldn't have retained Investing People status if we'd have just got the box, not listened to Bruce and not taken his advice and recommendations on. So listen and act on the feedback that comes in your direction.
Guy Bloom (42:43.038)
Perfect. So listen Rob, I'm going to bring us to a close. I'm going to get you to stay on just for a few moments just to make sure everything uploads so you don't see a grown man cry in front of you if it all goes horribly wrong. So on that note, so listen, just from everybody listening, I've really enjoyed this conversation. It's been hugely valuable for me and it's just great to interact with somebody who actually is boots on the ground doing this kind of...
thing and so that's I think a value. So from me and everybody else listening, Rob, thank you so much for coming on.
Rob Oxley (43:13.966)
Thank you very much.
Guy Bloom (43:21.618)
Boom, look at that.
Rob Oxley (43:24.364)
That was it.
Guy Bloom (43:25.265)
something I'll just wait back with me