Leadership BITES
Leadership BITES
Paul "Gravy" Kent Graeve: How To Unlock Data For Leaders
In this episode of Leadership Bites, Guy Bloom interviews Data Coach Paul Graeve, who shares insights on the intersection of leadership and data management. Paul emphasizes the simplicity of data, debunks myths surrounding its complexity, and discusses the critical role leaders play in fostering a data-driven culture. He highlights the importance of viewing data as an organizational asset and the challenges organizations face in managing their data effectively. The conversation also covers the significance of data warehousing and the need for intentionality in data management practices. In this conversation, Guy Bloom and Data Coach Paul discuss the importance of data-driven leadership and the actionable steps leaders can take to foster a data-driven culture within their organizations. They explore the role of AI in data management, the challenges leaders face in transforming their data practices, and the mindset required to effectively utilize data for decision-making and organizational growth. The discussion emphasizes the value of data as a foundational asset for businesses and the necessity of intentionality and perseverance in building a data-driven culture.
Takeaways
- Data is fundamentally simple: strings, dates, and numbers.
- Leaders must value data to invest in it effectively.
- Data can transform every aspect of an organization.
- A data-driven culture is essential for effective leadership.
- Organizations often struggle with scattered data across systems.
- Data warehousing provides a solution for managing data effectively.
- Leaders should be intentional about data management practices.
- Understanding data is crucial for strategic decision-making.
- Data is the identity of an organization, reflecting its operations.
- Building a data-driven culture is a continuous journey. Leaders must establish a culture that values data.
- Actionable insights from data require a data-driven mindset.
- Replacing 'I think' with 'Do we have data?' fosters better decision-making.
- Data-driven culture leads to unified decision-making among teams.
- AI can assist in managing and utilizing data effectively.
- Data is the foundation for all technology, including AI.
- Intentionality and perseverance are key in data transformation.
- Data-driven leadership improves organizational growth and decision-making.
- Survey tools can provide valuable insights into team morale and performance.
- Investing in data management is crucial for future business success.
Sound Bites
- "The first step for a leader is to value data."
- "Your data is who your organization is."
- "We need to get our data ready."
- "AI can be a great tool in that effort."
- "We need to be intentional about it."
- "Data is our most valuable asset."
- "Data is the foundation and the future of business."
- "We are going to own our data."
- "Let's use data to make better decisions."
- "Everyone wins when the leader becomes data driven."
- "Data is incredibly simple."
To find out more about Guy Bloom and his award winning work in Team Coaching, Leadership Development and Executive Coaching click below.
The link to everything CLICK HERE
UK: 07827 953814
Email: guybloom@livingbrave.com
Web: www.livingbrave.com
Guy Bloom (00:00.255)
Countdown proves that we're professionals, so we are straight into it. listen, Paul, fantastic to have you on this episode of Leadership Bites. Thank you so much. And I just want to start off with saying what I always say for every single guest, I clearly know who you are, the audience probably doesn't, or some of them might, but for those that don't, just introduce yourself.
Data Coach Gravy (00:27.662)
Hey, yeah, well, thanks for having me. It's awesome to be on this leadership podcast. Leadership is my favourite topic and I love being a data coach. I go by data coach gravy. My last name is gravy and everybody's just called me gravy since kindergarten. So I've learned to just kind of go with it, but love being here and talking about data and leadership. Those are my two favourite topics. I've all of my businesses over my 30 plus year career have been data.
companies and learned a lot over 30 years and I just love talking to leaders and talking about how data and leadership really work together. So it's just an honour and a privilege to be here to kind of talk about those things today.
Guy Bloom (01:13.695)
Well, for me, is, I think, spot on, I focus on leadership development. And one of the key things is my focus is around behaviour and people's personal narrative and all the things that go with that kind of thing. But data, of course, is something that when I started out on 55, so when I started out, data seemed a lot more manageable. And I'm really intrigued as to just your thoughts and your experiences with that.
Just before we get into some of the questions that I'm very keen to ask you, just give us a bit of a timeline on how you got to the role that you're in now. And I think that'll just help us contextualize where you're talking from, the experiences that you've got, and in essence, why you've got something to say on this.
Data Coach Gravy (02:08.546)
Yeah, okay, fun. I come at this from a very common sense approach, which I think is, and hopefully refreshing. My dad was a farm boy from Iowa. And so he, as my dad and I was his only son, he was determined to teach me two things, character and hard work. And so he loved to get me jobs that produced those things, which means those jobs were awful.
And not any fun. And he found me those jobs for every spring break, summer break, Christmas break. And so was finally during college, I was studying finance and I asked and begged and pleaded my dad for Christmas break to get me some sort of white collar job instead of like shuffling stuff or all of those character building opportunities as he loved to call them. And so in my first white collar job for Christmas break,
The CFO of this company asked me to do a bunch of spreadsheets and I finished them in a day and he expected that to take me like a month and so he decided that I belonged in the IT department and stuck me over there and that kind of started everything because the CTO of the company asked me to build a database and by the end of the month they offered me a full-time job building databases for their company. So I bought a computer and went back to college.
and started my first database design company from my college apartment. And all of my companies since then, like I said, have been really focused around data and utilizing data, effectively utilizing data. I've had companies that dealt with YMCAs. That was one of my first start-ups back in the dot com era when you could raise money on an idea on the back of a napkin and money was just flowing to any 20 something year old with a
with a, had an understanding of the internet. And so that was a very interesting time and a lot of fun and learned a lot, but a lot more companies since then around just really effectively using data, data analytics and data warehousing, data integrations. And now I'm the founder and CEO of the Data Group. And we focus on all those things, specifically on.
Data Coach Gravy (04:28.398)
on data warehousing, data integrations, and effectively helping leaders, CEOs, understand the value and the potential of their data and harness it to use it effectively.
Guy Bloom (04:41.776)
I love a story where somebody almost goes, you know, like, I got on a horse and it just felt right or I just got in the car and I found out I was good at it. So it's such a lovely thing just to hear somebody, regardless of anything else that we talk about. I absolutely love that because I didn't really figure out what I was good at until I was in my 30s. So it's great to hear that when somebody says, yeah, they said a month. when I'd finished it at the end of the day.
I kind of knew I was onto something, which I love it.
Data Coach Gravy (05:12.674)
Yeah, I did not know my career was going to be in data. So that was definitely a, an interesting, the Lord just pointed the way. Yeah.
Guy Bloom (05:18.899)
Yes. Yes. Boy, a dream. Data for me. Yes. So you talk about the myth that data is too complex for non-technical leaders. I'm, and I just would like to probably get a starting point of there are probably those that are very data orientated. And that doesn't necessarily mean that they don't make something complicated even more complicated.
but I'm very keen in that kind of, what would you say are the myths around data when it comes for, you know, I would initially think non-technical leaders, but maybe potentially even for technically orientated leaders.
Data Coach Gravy (06:05.612)
Yeah, I mean, that's it. So I wrote the book Data Driven Leader and that's the reason I wrote the book is because so many leaders, I hear them speak, I hear them talk and whenever they're asked questions about data, they kind of just immediately, I don't understand any of that. Go talk to my tech team. And so they're just, they believe this lie that data is really complicated.
And it's something that they can't understand. And therefore they use that as an excuse, I guess, to outsource the leadership of their organization's data, which I think is just a massive, unfortunate lie that they believe because data is so incredibly simple. What I love to say is using the rule of three and how simple things are data is three things, it's strings, dates and numbers. And that's it. It's that simple. And, you know, one thing we all
as leaders, thing we look at from a data perspective and the thing that we understand is graphs and charts. And if you think about any graph and chart that makes sense to you, it's made up of those three components, strings that are the labels of the accesses of the graph or maybe dates. And then the bars or the lines or whatever it is that make up the components of the chart is our numbers that are summed together or some sort of algorithm. And that's
That's it. That's data, strings, dates, and numbers. And so it's that simple. And that's kind of my message to leaders and to CEOs is this is really that simple. And if you're smart enough to be a leader, you're way smarter than you need to be to understand data. And therefore you're way smarter than you need to be to lead your data. And the way you, you know, the way you lead your data is that simple too. It's that we need to, we need to effectively use our data. And so we need to own it.
control it and we need to fix it, discover it, we call it, and then use it effectively. And those are again, kind of the rule of three, the three steps that we use at the data group, own your data, discover your data, use your data. And it's that simple. I'm so I can talk about that and that mission and how to lead that. But that's really my message to, to leaders is data is so incredibly simple and you can, and you should lead it because it is kind of the future of everything.
Data Coach Gravy (08:26.794)
including all this crazy AI stuff that everybody's talking about. yeah, so my message to leaders is data is incredibly simple, strings, dates, and numbers, and you shouldn't be intimidated by it, and you should most definitely lead it.
Guy Bloom (08:42.824)
Okay, so I'm going to come at this from a position of my 12 year old brings maths homework back and they've changed maths and it freaks me out. So I could very easily be one of those people that goes, I intellectually can understand what I'm being told as potentially an outcome. As in I can work with and what these numbers tell us is, but actually
everything that leads to that outpour may be a little bit of a mystery to me to a greater or lesser degree. Let me just take that position because that's probably the lowest common denominator. So what is it that a leader is actually managing? Is it the relation with data? Is it the control of it? Is it their actual understanding? Is it interpretation? Is it all of the... What is the element of, if you say, I can see that that leader is leading data?
What are they actually doing?
Data Coach Gravy (09:46.392)
Yeah. great question. And in our, in our kind of preparation for this podcast, you talk about your podcast is about leadership and culture, right? And that's what a data-driven leader does. What, what any leader does, right? Is, is we all, you know, we've all heard the phrase as leaders that culture eats strategy for breakfast. And so that's what a data-driven leader does is creates a culture where data is valued and data is utilized. And so that.
I think the first step is as leaders, we, and as people, as humans, right? We invest in things, we invest our time, our energy, our money, our resources into things based on our perceived value of them. And so if you're married, like, you know, how you invest in your spouse kind of says how much, and that's like a whole other talk, right? But
you know, what you're investing your time, your energy, your resources in shows how much you value those things. And so if we don't value data, then of course we don't invest in it. But if we do value data, if we see data as the most valuable asset in our company, then we're very likely to invest in it accordingly. So the first step for a leader is to
And that's what I talk a lot about is trying to help leaders see the incredible latent potential of their data because only when they finally have that realization that, my gosh, this data has the potential to transform every aspect of my operation, my team, my business, then and only then will they really start investing in it accordingly.
And I talk about, you know, look at all the assets of your organization, depending on the size of your organization. When you look at the assets and your budget, it'll be a very clear as to what you value, what assets are you investing in? And if data is way down on that list, then that's what I'm trying to say is, Hey, you know, if you think about your assets, you know, manufacturing lines, products, IP people, whatever the case may be, your assets are none of them.
Data Coach Gravy (12:10.42)
Any of those assets have the potential to literally transform every aspect of your organization, every aspect. You know, if you're manufacturing lines, if you upgrade those, those can, those can impact manufacturing and efficiency. If you upgrade your human resources, that can impact your hire, but none of them can, can impact every area of your organization, but your data can because every or every area of your organization is capturing data. And so
Just because it's everywhere in your organization is the first reason that it has the potential to transform every aspect of your business. And so just understanding that, we have this data and it's everywhere and it can help me understand everything about my business and can help my team understand everything. It can see problems before they happen and help us proactively put out fires before they start.
help us to be more strategic, help us to plan more strategic, help us to spend our money better. So that's what I love about data is it has the transformative power to transform every aspect of your business. And so as leaders, it's one of the things that we should be investing in the most heavily. And when I was younger, I heard this, you you have these few quotes in your life that just, just blow your mind and really have an impact on you. And I'm not sure who said it, but it was that
you are to this point in your life, the sum total of your thoughts, you can be nothing else. And so when you think about our brains and our thoughts and what that means is that our thoughts are guided by the inputs. So the data, right? So everything we've read, every conversation we've had, all of the data that we've put into our brain quite literally is who we are. And so make that leap then to say,
your data of your organization is who your organization is. It is literally the identity of your company because every transaction, every sale, every customer complaint, every widget that you've manufactured, there's a data record of the life of your company for that event. And so the data literally is your company.
Data Coach Gravy (14:25.91)
And so harnessing the power of that, that it literally is who your company is and everything about is the story of your company. And then using that story to then say, Hey, you know, the past is the best predictor of the future. Where does our data say we're heading and what do we need to change to get our story headed in the right direction? And the data is the only completely unbiased, you know, messenger of where your company
really is today. Everything else is bias, your people, your team, yourself, but your data gives you the complete and total truth about the story and the life of your company and where you are today. And it can tell you, you know, where you need to shift. And so that's why I just think data is so incredibly valuable. And I want leaders to really understand that value in the depths of their leadership soul so that they'll invest in it.
like it's the most valuable asset because it really is.
Guy Bloom (15:28.415)
So when you look at organizations who are getting this right, is it newer start-ups? It's easier for them because they're smaller and they started off in the current age or actually, you'd be quite surprised at that or actually, no, the bigger beasts, they've got the money to throw at something like this unless they've been going too long and they're trying to retrofit something they should have done 20 years ago.
So is there anything that sort of says the newer the more likely it is to be where it should be or the older it is they've had longer to get it right or actually no if you draw that line it's probably a bit of a buggers muddle everywhere but or maybe some have nailed it what what's the what's the balance there?
Data Coach Gravy (16:14.178)
Yeah. no, I don't think there's any, any, trend there. There's there's start-ups struggle with it because you're busy, you know, trying to really grow and build your business and, and big, huge, massive enterprises struggle with it because they've got so much disparate data in so many different locations. You know, there's, there's the larger the organizations we go into, they don't even have a clue how many databases they have or where it all is. And with today's ever proliferating SAS.
systems, know, the data is all data for all companies, small start-ups to big organizations is just continuing to be scattered in the cloud as we adopt these SAS systems. I love SAS systems. I think they're great. They're wonderful for so many reasons and they're amazing, but they continue to just spread our data out and make it more and more difficult to really own it and control it and use it effectively.
So that's the challenge is we're in this data proliferation, but we're also in this continual data scattering because we're using all this SaaS systems that continues to just spread our data out in the cloud. And so having a real strategy, whether you're a start-up or a massive enterprise to say our data is scattered everywhere between on-premise systems, everybody thinks that we're.
All these companies are on such a cutting edge of technology, but mainframes are still being used everywhere. I mean, we see it all the time. And this is 1970s and 80s technologies that are still running companies. And that technology is not going anywhere anytime soon. So there's this enormous challenge where data is kind of scattered everywhere and continuing to even get more scattered with the proliferation of the cloud and SAS.
And so unless as a leader, you're incredibly intentional about the fact that your data is so valuable and we are going to own it and bring it into one single location where we can discover it and clean it and enrich it and fix it and then effectively utilize it. you just kind of have, you know, the, you know, the proverbial lion by the tail and a tiger by the tail, because, again, unless you're very intentional about it, it can get away from you.
Data Coach Gravy (18:34.85)
very quickly and very easily, especially as you just continue to add SAS systems, which are so easy to add to your tool set.
Guy Bloom (18:43.968)
So acquisitions, integrations, just random parts of an organization deciding to do its own thing can lead to this multifaceted system. Now, is it as simple, and this is quasi-rhetorical because I already know it isn't, but as, if you've got a bucket load of money, yeah, you can throw a bucket load of money at it, go and buy one system, migrate everything across.
And that's the easiest sentence in the world to say, isn't it? Well, buy one and migrate everything across. And you go, all right, then we'll have it done by Tuesday. So it's easy to say. But then we go and get things like in the UK where we have the post office scandal, which you may or may not be aware of. But I think it was Fujitsu put in a IT based system and it's been it was an absolute disaster. Huge amounts of money spent, an entire
organization keyed towards actually making this thing work and then all of a sudden you've got X-MAD 100 post office people in jail because apparently they were doing things illegally but of course they weren't the system was saying that they was it all went horribly wrong so this isn't where's this kind of okay I hear you there I'm on I think we should absolutely make it all one system one central space but actually is it
People are scared of the cost. they? Do know what? Don't mess with it. It's like the wiring in the old building. If it's still working, just leave it. You know, what goes on for people that stops them? Because intellectually, it's probably not a difficult step. But what is it that stops it? Purely money? No, it's not just that. What is it?
Data Coach Gravy (20:15.982)
Don't break it, yeah.
Data Coach Gravy (20:30.274)
No, it's not money, it's leadership and it's intentionality. You're right, it's intellectually, it seems like a Mount Everest to climb. And so, with anything in life that seems like a huge mountain to climb, what do we do? We procrastinate on it because it just, I'll get to that later because it's too big for me to tackle today. So you have to have this.
data-driven leader, data-driven culture building mindset that yes, this is an elephant and we're going to have to eat it one bite at a time. And it's a lifelong journey to become a data-driven leader and transform your organization into a data-driven business. Because as I say, you can't be a data-driven leader if you're not running a data-driven business, right? You can't say I'm a data-driven leader, but your data is scattered everywhere and you don't use it effectively. You're not a data-driven leader because your organization is not data-driven.
business. So, and this is a journey and it's not something you do by Tuesday and it's not something but
There is good news and the good news is we finally do have the tools that do make it very simple to do. And I use the word simple because it is simple, but that doesn't mean it's not difficult. But the only reason it's difficult is that it requires perseverance, right? And John C. Maxwell, one of my mentors in leadership, you he says everything worthwhile is uphill. And so, yeah, this is an uphill.
But it's a very simple uphill that just requires intentionality and perseverance because we now have the technical tools to make it possible. We love Snowflake and we're a Snowflake partner and Snowflake is an amazing cloud-based data warehouse that does make it incredibly simple to finally really load and own your data in a single location to make this possible. Data warehouse is the first
Data Coach Gravy (22:24.046)
conceptual idea of data warehouses was back in the 1980s. And we only had transactional databases back then from the 80s to really about 2010. So there's like these 30 years there where this is a great idea and everybody's like, oh, we should, you know, build these data warehouses and own all of our data and one version of the truth.
but we were using the wrong tool for the job and we all know what happens when you use the wrong tool for the job. It's just, you know, it's a disaster. And so we were trying to make these data warehouses in the wrong databases. And that's why.
The ROI on all these projects was awful and they were generally failures. And so it kind of data warehousing in this whole idea got a really bad name and people kind of, and then we, and then we did something even worse as we tried to say, well, let's make data lakes and even put unstructured data in it, which makes no sense. You haven't even solved the first problem of owning and controlling your structured data. Now we're to make it more complicated with unstructured data. So that even was a bigger disaster and now we've got AI and we're trying to, and so
that's my kind of point to the leaders is look, let's take a common sense approach to this. We now have these amazing cloud-based data warehouse tools that make this easy. Let's be very simple and be very intentional and let's get our data from these systems into this single cloud-based data warehouse and let's own it and discover it and clean it and fix it and make it usable. And then...
And then the, you know, then we can talk about all these other crazy ideas and possibilities and AI, but.
Data Coach Gravy (23:56.566)
AI runs on data, everything runs on data. And until you have your data and you're able to effectively use it, all these other things are just kind of ideas that you can't effectively implement. If companies come to us all the time, they're like, we want to build this customer facing portal. We want to build this app. We want to build this decision support analytics system. And it's like, that's great. Those are great visions. Those are great ideas and we need to implement those. So where's your data that's going to support this system? And then
like, you know, And so it's like the first, the foundation of all of these things is your data.
And so going back to your quote, kind of, okay, well then it's this elephant. Where do we start? And that's real easy. You start with the fire. So what's, what's causing you problems is manufacturing constantly having problems is, is sales constantly having problems as customer, where are all the fires as the leader coming to you? All right. So let's start getting the data from that area, but instead of getting it into spreadsheet hell, which is the typical, you know, that's the way, get some data, put it in a spreadsheet and let's analyse it.
Let's be more intentional and let's say let's get the data, let's put it in a data warehouse, let's get the data updating every day, refreshing in our data warehouse, and let's use the data to solve this problem from our data warehouse instead of from spreadsheet hell. You might start in spreadsheet hell, that's fine, but just be intentional and say this is not where we're going to stay.
We might've gotten this data in the spreadsheet so we could answer this question or solve this fire right here right now. But now let's make this a building block. Let's get that data into our data warehouse. And I would just continue to use that mindset as fires come as problems come use as an opportunity to say, okay, this is data that we need to start capturing in our data warehouse. And let that be your strategy is let's, let's use the data that helps put out fires. Cause what you're doing is you're solving problems. You're solving those problems forever.
Data Coach Gravy (25:55.934)
because you're getting that data. Now we can proactively monitor that data. We can see those problems coming. You're building that data-driven culture that we solve problems through data. You're telling your team and your culture that we value data. That's why we're being intentional about putting it into a warehouse where we can constantly use it. So you're doing all those things. You're being a data-driven leader. You're showing your team how valuable data is, how you're going to use data, how you're going to build this warehouse. And then of course, what you're also doing is you're becoming more strategic because you're putting out these
You're getting the data to proactively stop these fires before they start. And now you can start to think more strategic. And now you say, hey, we've got this data. Now we can build this customer portal. Now we can build this app. Now we can maybe launch an AI initiative and strategy because we have this data foundation to build those things from.
Guy Bloom (26:49.546)
just you did say something because this is not my sweet spot at all you said that snowflake i think or data ware has did you say car I am sure you didn't say card based but it sounded like card or cog based
Data Coach Gravy (27:03.0)
Cloud-based, cloud-based, cloud-based data warehouses.
Guy Bloom (27:05.973)
Can you spell that? What is it?
Data Coach Gravy (27:10.236)
cloud C L O U D cloud, like the internet, the cloud. No, my problem, my, I've got a little cold. I'm recovering some sort of my apologies for my lack of enunciation cloud, or maybe it's my Southern Alabama accent either way.
Guy Bloom (27:12.895)
Cloud based, I do apologize. There you go. Now I've got you. Now I've caught up with the main party.
Guy Bloom (27:22.835)
That's okay. No, cloud. It could be off Southern draw, you know, but fantastic. So I get that. And if you were going to say, look, you've got a big powerful Excel spreadsheet running over here, and then you've got cloud based data warehouse to the side. What is the difference just for the person that might be listening to this going
I don't see, so if I've got it all in one place on Excel, why would I, what would the benefit be if it's all there and I can see the data? Bring to life, is it accessibility? Is it, what is it that makes it different?
Data Coach Gravy (28:04.716)
Well, yeah, any organization of any size is going to quickly outgrow Excel's capabilities to capture all the data and analyse all the data. So that's the first thing is just a scalability issue. The second issue is kind of what people like to call governance and control. You know, very difficult to control. If you've got sensitive data and spreadsheets, they're too easy to just send around, copy around. So there's no real control or governance of that data. So a cloud-based
I'm trying to say that more, no, it's the actual cloud-based data warehouse. Snowflake's going to give you those things, total scalability, the ability to just throw as much data as you want and need. And as you capture into it and still be able to analyse it and use it effectively. And it's going to provide you those controls that governance where you can manage who has access to what very simply. Snowflake is an amazing tool. It has some interesting competition. This whole cloud-based data warehousing market is going to be fun to watch.
And it's just awesome because again, it's finally giving us the right tools to be able to effectively really harness all of this data and be able to query it and analyse it effectively. So just very excited about the potential of Snowflake and all of their competition in these cloud-based data warehouses to cluster and really make data and the vast volume of data that we're creating truly usable. So it's going to be a lot of fun just to
where these technologies go. But it's so important to just start leveraging them and using them and start to get all of your data into these. I call it your one version of the truth cloud-based data warehouse and that's an acronym that's not pronounceable. And since I need to talk about that all that time as a data coach gravy, I just shortened it to the word Otter. So your one version of the truth cloud-based data warehouse, your Otter, I say that's the mission as a data-driven leader to build your Otter.
your one version of the truth, cloud-based data warehouse. So if you just set that as your mission with your team and build that culture, it's very simple to do, but yes, it requires perseverance and intentionality and leadership to just say, we're going to get all of this data from all of these systems. And one of the things too is be very intentional now as you add systems to your enterprise is to say, all right,
Data Coach Gravy (30:30.626)
We love this system. We're buying this system because it fits our budget because it has the features and things that we want. Great. But
Ask a third question now as a data driven leader, how are we going to be able to get this data out of this system and into our Otter so that we can add it with all of our other data and integrate it and effectively use it. So, I mean, that's just, you know, the way the world is and the way companies end up the way we are is we just buy systems because they fit our budget and they have the features that we want. then later, well, how do we get this data out of it? And then that's the challenge is that wasn't thought of upfront and asked upfront.
And so just as you purchase new systems, always ask that third question, which is how is this system going to allow us to extract the data out of it and get it into our data warehouse so we can use it effectively?
Guy Bloom (31:19.839)
So I'm a senior leader. What are the actionable insights? How do I gain actionable insights from the data that I have in a business? And I don't know if that's what you can't unless you've done all the stuff I just said. Or actually, is there a pre and post capability? I don't know. But what are the steps to gain actionable insights from data in a drive to have business growth?
Data Coach Gravy (31:49.826)
Yeah, so again, we have establish that culture, right? And it starts with the leader. And the good news is, as we all know, we don't create culture. We are the culture. So if we're a joyful, happy, you know, leader, then our team becomes joyful and happy. If we're a leader that's always doing things excellent, our team becomes excellent at everything they do. So our team, our culture is created by who we are. So as a leader, the actionable step is
you need to start to understand the value of data and you need to start to use data. And so we need these like little simple hacks. If you've read James clear's book, atomic habits, which is a great book on habits. And so he talks about the guy who's trying to re-establish his, his exercise habit. And he says on the first day he just puts on his workout clothes. That's it. And then he takes them back off, you know, the second day he actually drives to the gym and then turns around, goes back home. And so he's not working out.
but he's just starting the habit of showing up, right? And so we need these hacks to kind of get the ball rolling. And then of course it takes the perseverance to realize the compounding energy and results of those habits. But how do you get started, which is your question, how do you get started being a data driven leader? And so I was trying to think of a hack, like how do we do this? How do we start to really use data all the time? And
I was doing this kind of word study and one of the phrases that's the most commonly used phrase in all of language is I think, I think, and then whatever. And so if you were to get your assistant to come into every meeting with you and your team and just count a tick mark for every time somebody says I think, you'd just be like, my gosh, we say the words I think all the time. And as a...
if we're going to become a data driven leader, this is what this is the hack I want you to use. Because when you say, think this is what you're saying, you're saying, I have no data whatsoever to back this thought up, but I think this is what we should do. And so when you're talking about decisions and strategies and trying to solve problems, when you say, I think that my hack is replace, I think with, do we have any data? Cause then what you're saying is
Data Coach Gravy (34:07.202)
I'm going to quit assuming. I'm going to quit thinking. I'm going to say, instead of, think, why don't we go get some data on this problem? And that way you're starting this process of, of changing from just jumping to conclusions, jumping to assumptions. My, my bias, my thinking is this to, Hey, let's let the data show us the reality and let's let the data guide how to solve this problem. Now,
you say, sometimes there's a fire. We've got to put it out right now. We don't have time to say, go get some data. All right, so just reverse that and say, here's the decision. This is what I think we should do. But now, let's gather some data on this to make sure that that's the right decision. So again, just always.
that let's use data. Let's replace, think, with let's get some data. Or this is what I think we should do. Now let's get some data and circle back in a week or a month and make sure that the data is showing that that was the right decision. And so again, you're creating this data-driven culture by showing your team, I value data and data is the truth and we need to use that unbiased truth to really guide our decisions and then to correctively steer. Maybe it was the
right decision and but maybe the data is showing now we need a course correction so just constantly using data and teaching your team that creates that data-driven culture teaches everyone that we value data and then that makes it a much easier conversation once everybody kind of starts seeing hey data is really valuable and we do need data to make these decisions and when we use data to make decisions they're better decisions and they're more unified decision I mean when I go into a meeting and I say I think
I've opened up everybody to say, I think, well, and I think, and now everybody's got their opinion and now we're maybe fighting and we're not unified. But if I go into a meeting and I say, look at this data, and everyone in the room goes, man, that data clearly shows this.
Data Coach Gravy (36:06.998)
Now we have, we're unified, right? And it was nobody's opinion. It was everybody, it was the data telling us the reality and the truth. And now everybody's on the same page. Everybody's unified. Everybody sees the problem clearly. And we're marching in unison towards the common goal, which is of course the goal of every leader, right? To get your team all in lockstep on the mission. And so nothing is more unifying than data and data showing the way because it's unopinionated. It's unbiased. It's not somebody else's opinion.
and we all get on board with it and then we're all in lockstep behind it. So those are just the incredible value of data and just constantly steering your team. Hey, let's use data, let's use data. And now that they understand that value, it's a lot easier to say, hey, let's spend money on our Otter. Let's spend money getting Snowflake. Let's spend money building these integrations to load our data into Snowflake. And you're creating that data driven culture, that value of data that makes those decisions a lot easier to make, that makes
that investment a lot easier to make.
Guy Bloom (37:10.865)
It runs a very interesting parallel actually to when I'm working with teams or I'm doing executive coaching and I'll ask the question, for example, if they're struggling with an individual or they're thinking about their team. And I ask that question, what are people's thoughts on you or what does this individual think about you? I think, and I go, let me just pause you there. How could you know? And of course the answer is go and ask. But that principle of guess what?
That's the same thing, isn't it? You don't have the data. And that whole mentality actually is universally true. One of the things that really resonates with me is this idea of the heaviest weight of all is not knowing. And actually as an individual or as a team or as a CEO, actually we carry this weight that we may have got used to, which is we don't actually know. So that's a very powerful...
alignment I think between how one might develop oneself or a team from a leadership development perspective but also if it's true it's probably true everywhere and hearing you talk it clearly is so that's nice to make for me anyway to make that that connection.
Data Coach Gravy (38:25.388)
Yeah, and the data is that complete unbiased truth, right? It has no bias. It's the reality of the situation and dealing with teams and that whole,
What is the team? Those are more difficult, you know, human resource sorts of problems, but data can still be a huge asset. We have so many survey tools now, SAS based survey tools. And when you're diving into these sorts of things, I really encourage CEOs to use these survey tools and kind of drip out questions to the team in surveys. But again,
capture that data, put that in a warehouse, let's analyse that data and ask the same question a year later and see how the answers are different than they were a year ago from the team. using surveys and asking your team members these questions and doing it very strategically and ask them questions where they can really provide anonymous input, but you'll really start to get a sense of where your team is, especially if you ask very strategic survey questions and you capture
that data and you analyse that data over time again you're
Your data is the life, the story, it is who your company is. And if you're constantly asking your team kind of these survey questions, you'll really get the truth, the reality of where your team is, what they're thinking and kind of where they're headed mentally and from a morale standpoint, all of those things. And you kind of switch the questions from kind of team buildings to, know, to, to questions about, you know, tools and systems and processes, and then kind of back to those more
Data Coach Gravy (40:04.426)
feeling questions. Are you enjoying your job, your family life? You can get personal to show them you really care about them, that you love them, you're interested in their personal. So really, and kind of going back and forth with those questions and then capturing that data and looking at it over time can really help leaders get a sense of the reality of their team, you know, beyond just conversations in the hallway.
Guy Bloom (40:28.885)
So I'm quite fascinated by AI and chat GPT, which is probably where I kind of top out on others other ones around. But I remember when Google came out and before that I was using Ask Jeeves or whatever it was. And it was a revelation. You you had this thing that actually gave you an answer in a really quick way. And I remember going blink and egg and showing people and then everybody go, blumin' hell, it makes the internet work. And now...
chat GPT, what I've also noticed is I'm very rarely using Google. What I'm actually doing, because I'm getting a, if I want to know how to do something, if I searched on Google, it would give me a list of places and then I'd have to go and look and I'd have to read. Whereas guess what AI did? It aggregated all the information and it gave me a response. So I'm using a particular piece of software. What does, I actually went, what does the button on the left hand side that looks like, what does it do?
And it came back and says, it does this. I go, that's fantastic. Now it's a shift. So if you've got data centers and you've got a really good way of gathering information and now we have AI which comes along, what's that doing to the way that people then interact with data?
that if you already understand it, you're way ahead. But what might surprise people and what might be a bit of a revelation for people? Because one of the things I know is when I have a room of 20, 30 leaders and I say, who knows what chat GPT is, 75 % of the room put their hand up. And then I say, how many of you have used it? Then I'm left with 25%. And then I go, how many of you use it every day? And it's usually me and one other person.
So there's a very quick drop off. So I'd just be interested in what's that doing to the process.
Data Coach Gravy (42:22.157)
Yeah.
Data Coach Gravy (42:32.974)
Yeah, I mean, the first thing I want to point out is you kind of hit in your example on the difference between.
You know, scattered data, not being intentional and integrating and aggregating your data into a data warehouse. The difference between Google and now you got to go read and you still got to search and you still got to go find that's your data scattered. And then chat with GPT is, what you said is data aggregated. And now I can get a real answer with one question. And that's the difference between having your data scattered and having your data in a, in a snowflake, you know, one version of the truth cloud-based data warehouse where you can actually use it. So great example of, of the power of doing that is chat.
GPT. But AI is, it's scary, right? It's scary for everyone. Where is it going? What's it doing? In the 80s we had
one of the great leaders of our country and Ronald Reagan. And he said something, if you're old enough to remember him, that he said that a recession is when your neighbour loses their job, but a depression is when you lose yours. And I say, you know, AI is really cool. And we all think it's really cool when it replaces somebody else's job, but we're going to think it really sucks if it replaces our job. Right. So that's kind of the scary thing. Everybody's kind of like, where's this going and whose jobs is it replacing? And none of us really,
know all that and those are a lot of deep philosophical questions. But as leaders, we know we need to be using it, right? We don't want to get left behind. We know we need to be leveraging it. So we want to use it, but we want to use it in a way that actually produces ROI, right? If you look right now, the vast, vast majority of AI projects are losing money and they're not producing any ROI. So
Data Coach Gravy (44:18.19)
Again, being the common sense data driven leader approach, my
message to leaders is, hey, let's pump the brakes on the AI because what we need is that foundation. We need to get our data ready to be able to actually do something valuable that returns ROI with an artificial intelligence strategy. Artificial intelligence, just like real intelligence, our brain runs off of data. And so you could have the best AI algorithms in the world. And if you don't have good solid data to feed into them,
you're going to get really bad results. So what we need to do is again, take that common sense approach. The data, our data, our company and organizations data and getting it into that one version of the truth data warehouse, getting it clean, getting it meaningful, enriching it so that it's incredibly useful. That's the foundation of a solid AI strategy.
is your data. So again, use the data to solve problems, use the data to make your company completely data driven, to be more strategic. And now I have the foundation to be strategic with AI. So that's kind of just I'm just saying, Hey, let's use common sense. Let's get our data in order. And then we can leverage AI.
Guy Bloom (45:40.053)
Hmm.
Do you have a sense of what AI is going to do to organizations or for, I should say, organizations that take that position of let's have really clear, accessible, robust data? Right, we've got it. And there's a tick in the box for our mechanism for keeping it on point.
Now, without AI, as you say, an intelligent person goes in and does something with it. Is AI really going for an organization? What that means is it means that there isn't a guardian to it. It's not just Bob and Sandra, the only two that actually understand how to get it out of the system and to work with it. Actually, what does AI do that actually if we got one company with a robust setup,
and they're not using AI, it's just people. And then we've got the same robust setup, but AI is going to be embraced and adopted. What's the differential?
Data Coach Gravy (46:53.752)
Yeah, I mean, it's an assistant, right? I mean, that's the way I see it. It's a tool that we can leverage and that we can use. And that's the best way I see it use it is to use it as a tool to help us get our data.
aggregated, integrated to help us clean our data, to help us enrich our data. And it's starting to be able to do some of those things. It's in its infancy. But I think that's one of the big ways I know it can help from a data-driven leader perspective is it can help us in this process of owning our data, discovering our data, using our data. It can be a very big tool that we can tap into to help us with that strategy, to help us eat that elephant, because it is a massive elephant.
we do need to do in order to become a driven leader, to lead a data driven business, we need to tackle that Mount Everest and get that data warehouse. And I think AI can be a great tool in that effort. And that's, you know, one of the ways that I want to see companies really leverage and use it as a data driven leader is how can we leverage this tool to help us be able to get a handle on our data, to get our data into this warehouse, to then clean it, enrich it, discover it, figure out how we can use it effectively.
then to help us build those visions and those systems, those portals, those apps, integrations, whatever it is, effectively use that data. think AI can be a great assistant and tool in helping use the data, helping, so help build that warehouse, help clean that data warehouse, help it make it useful, and then actually help implement that data, help make that data useful, build those systems, build those apps, build those integrations. That's where I think AI can be very powerful as basically an assistant in that whole effort.
Guy Bloom (48:38.39)
So what's your message to individuals, senior teams, CEOs, whatever it might be, are maybe, maybe it's like that if you're very, very overweight and you think, where do I start? You know, my diet's shocking, where do I begin? Or my data's absolutely abysmal and I don't even want to think about it. But actually it's all together with sticky back plastic and some chewing gum and it does seem to work. So If I start messing with this, is it going to get a hell of a lot worse before it gets better?
and actually I don't know if I can weather that storm. So intimidated by it maybe, fearful of the process probably. Just what's your what's your sort of thinking around?
Data Coach Gravy (49:22.584)
Well, you're probably right. It probably is going to get worse before it gets better. Just like you said, if I'm terribly overweight, going to the gym is terrible, right? Especially at the beginning. It's awful and it's painful.
It's simple again, just like doing this. It's simple, but it's painful and it takes incredible perseverance, incredible discipline. So it's the same thing. I need to be intentional about it. I need to persevere. It probably is as I dive into this, it probably is going to get worse before it gets better because of for the reasons I just said, from a very practical, you know, on the boots on the ground standpoint, As I start to use data, as I start to ask my team for data to track more
data, it is going to get worse because we're going to probably dig ourselves deeper into that spreadsheet hell, which we don't want to do. But as long as we're being intentional as leaders, like, all right, I have this bigger vision in mind. I have this path and we are going to be intentional. We are going to build this data warehouse. And this is the means. This is the beginning point. We're just going to start to really value data. We're going to start to build this data-driven culture. And that might take us a little deeper into spreadsheet hell in the short run.
But as long as I'm intentional that we're going to continue to move that data out of spreadsheet hell into our warehouse over time, you know, you will continue to develop that process. You'll continue to lose the weight. If you persevere, you continue to build that data warehouse and you're building the foundation of the future of your business for all technology, including AI. It's all based on data. Data is the foundation and the future of business. It's the future of everything. It's it's it's who we are because it's
our brains and it's the future of all technology and AI and systems. And so as leaders, we just have to say, hey, data is our most valuable asset. We're going to invest in it as our most valuable asset. We're going to start here with baby steps, eating the elephant. But I have this as a leader, you know, what do we do? We set the vision, we set the mission.
Data Coach Gravy (51:29.226)
And it's big and it's audacious and this is it. It's we're going to own our data. We're going to control our data in a one version of the truth cloud based data warehouse. And so we're starting this mission one step, one meeting, one culture, you know, move at a time. But here's here's what you don't do.
Don't do that old 80s, 90s, early 2000s thing of this big, hey, we're going to build a data warehouse and so I'm going to create a team and we're going to sit in conference rooms and we're gonna whiteboard all of these strategies and we're gonna whiteboard data models and.
You'll, this is the, this is a terrible thing to do because it goes on forever and you never get anything accomplished. So do the opposite. Just say we value data. Data is our most valuable asset. We are going to own it. We are going to start using it. And how we're going to start is just, we're going to start using data every day to solve problems, to, analyse if we're making the right decisions. And we're going to be intentional about maybe that data is being gathered in spreadsheets today.
but we're going to be intentional about starting to move that data into our data warehouse so that we really fully own it and control it and can use it effectively for the future. And as long as you have that mission and that intentionality, you're going to get there if you persevere.
Guy Bloom (52:52.309)
So there is something about getting the head right before you start moving. There is something, and I see this with performance reviews, for example, let's buy a system. I go, okay, so now you're going to have a, we'll buy a system. I go, great. So now you're going to have a, because the system's rubbish. I go, well, now you're just going to have a system that costs a lot of money that nobody uses. In reality, if they buy into it, they'll do it with the rubbish system on rubbish, in rubbish ways. And you'll go, ah.
Data Coach Gravy (53:02.958)
Sure.
Guy Bloom (53:21.865)
We're brilliant, we love it, but it would just help if the system was better. Right, the system will not in itself bring people, some people will just go, it's a lot easier now. But if the mindset isn't there, i.e. the buy-in isn't there to the conceptual idea around it, then it'll take you nowhere. And I think that's probably true for most things, but I'm definitely hearing that in what you're saying.
Data Coach Gravy (53:46.082)
Yeah, I mean, just like.
any new habit, right? And using weight, losing weight is always the easiest example. It takes an incredible amount of time. And so that's the problem is, you know, we all come to the conclusion the first month in that it's not working. I haven't lost any weight. it's the same thing will happen as you start down this data driven initiative and to build this cloud-based Otter, this data warehouse is you're not going to see any results for a while, but it takes this mindset that, data is our most valuable asset. We are going to
invest in it accordingly and continuing to persevere in this vision. And the way again, to get everybody behind it is to kind of just create this immediate data driven culture, get this buy in that you're making better decisions. You're using data to make better decisions. You're using data to make course corrections. And then you're going to get the buy into the investment into the long-term vision that this is valuable and it's worth persevering through because it is going to take time and you're not going to see immediate results.
But if you keep that vision that, this is our most valuable asset, we are going to own it and control it, we're going to be intentional about constantly moving data out of spreadsheet hell into our Otter, and just keep that vision and keep.
just pursuing that data is valuable and we are going to use it. You'll get everybody in lockstep behind that mission. And when you finally do start to lose that weight, right? Three months, six months later, you know, that puts the wind in your sails, right? You're like, it's working. now you're looking instead of before you were like, I got to go to the gym. And now you're like, I can't wait to go to the gym because you're seeing the results when you start to see those first results from the Otter and you're able to do something incredible from it.
Data Coach Gravy (55:30.97)
building integration, building that, build a system and it works. Man, then now you'll really have the wind in your sails. You'll have the momentum and it'll really start to move at a much faster pace. So that first part in losing weight or in building your Otter, that first part's the hardest part. And that's where leaders come in, right? That's what leaders do. We cast the vision and then we persevere and we keep the team on mission and we keep marching, keep everybody focused. We see that the vision is gonna work.
And we don't compromise and we keep the team lockstep moving towards it.
Guy Bloom (56:06.165)
So I'm just alert to time and just people's, you know, again, and I say this to nearly everybody that comes on with a pizza and a bottle of wine. I've talked to you about this all night and then you'd say, I've got a life to lead and I need to go. So, but I'm just, I'm just aware of that. So if people want to read a book or make contact and find out more, or I'm a senior person, go, hmm, there's more to this than I thought.
Data Coach Gravy (56:20.814)
Thank
Guy Bloom (56:34.483)
What do they read? Where do they go?
Data Coach Gravy (56:37.858)
Well, unfortunately, my book isn't out yet, but it is coming. But we're constantly posting on my LinkedIn channel and on our website about data and data strategies and own your data, your data, own your data, discover your data, use your data. but there's lots of, you know.
As far as leadership stuff and culture stuff, my three favourite mentors and leaders are John C. Maxwell and Pastor Chris Hodges and Pastor Craig Groschel. And Craig Groschel's leadership podcast is awesome. And it's where I get tons of my leadership content. And he talks about how everyone wins when the leader gets better. And I kind of hijacked and stole his subtitle. And I say that because everyone wins when the leader becomes data driven. And so that's my
My goal is to just help leaders become data driven and it's my passion and really looking forward to my book coming out this fall. And it does give these very practical steps that every leader can take to start creating this data driven culture and build this mission to really own our data, discover our data and use our data effectively. so, know, hum.
Guy Bloom (57:45.333)
Can it be pre-ordered? Can it be pre-ordered or is there a waiting list?
Data Coach Gravy (57:50.35)
Not just yet, we're still in the editing phase. So as soon as we're done with the editing phase, then we'll start the pre-orders probably later this spring or summer.
Guy Bloom (58:00.49)
Great, well, when you do make sure you let us know. Okay, well listen, thank you so much. I mean, with all of these things, when you get somebody that actually knows what they're talking about, the passion and the clarity, you know, sort of comes charging out. So I can, I love that and I really appreciate it. So just for me and anybody that's listening and or watching, you know, just thank you so much for giving.
your time. Very much appreciated.
Data Coach Gravy (58:31.874)
Yeah, just remember data is incredibly simple. There's nothing to be intimidated about. So thank you for having me, guys. It's been a pleasure and an honour to be on your Leadership Podcast. I love leadership and I love data, which is crazy, but it's a lot of fun to talk about it. So thank you very much.
Guy Bloom (58:49.343)
You need a t-shirt that says, I love data on.
Data Coach Gravy (58:51.854)
I like that. I might have to get that. That'll be good.
Guy Bloom (58:55.582)
I think so. All right, let's bring it to a close. Stay on just to make sure everything does what it's supposed to do. And thank you so much.
Data Coach Gravy (59:02.338)
Thanks, Guy.