Elona Mortimer-Zhika, CEO, IRIS Software Group

Elona Mortimer-Zhika is the inspirational CEO of IRIS Software Group and is responsible for all operations across the Group and this weeks guest on the Leadership Bites podcast.

On this episode we talk about:

• Humble upbringing
• An education in diversity
• "The luck winner of...." (No luck involved)
• "My dad's my hero"
• Proud to be an accountant
• The role of leadership
• Hiring for curiousity
• Failing fast
• No decision is worth the wrong decision
• The culture question
• Being a house of brands
• "You can't just laminate values"
• The power of celebration
• Beating the drum
• "You can't fake passion"

Elona joined IRIS in 2016 as Chief Financial Officer and was promoted to Chief Operating Officer in 2018, and then Chief Executive Officer in 2019. In 2020, Elona was appointed as a Non-Executive Director and Chair of the Audit Committee at Purplebricks, the UK’s leading hybrid estate agency. Before joining IRIS, Elona held several senior leadership roles in Big 4 and PE-backed businesses, including Mavenir, Acision, Arthur Andersen and Deloitte.

Elona graduated with a First Class Honours Degree in Accounting and Economics and is a Fellow of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England & Wales. Awards include Top 50 Women in Accounting 2021; UK Tech Awards Business Woman of the Year 2020; Global Banking and Finance Business Woman of the Year UK 2020 and the Venus National Finance Professional of the Year 2018.

Elona is passionate about diversity and is a mentor in the F-Ten ICAEW programme supporting women in leadership positions.

To find out more about Guy Bloom and his award winning work in Team Coaching, Leadership Development and Executive Coaching click below.

The link to everything CLICK HERE
UK: 07827 953814
Email: guybloom@livingbrave.com
Web: www.livingbrave.com

Transcript

Guy Bloom    00:00 

Welcome to leadership bites with myself, your host, guy bloom. This is a leadership podcast where I have conversations with colleagues, I chat with guests, and sometimes they'll be just me talking. You can connect with me at livingbrave.com and when you enjoy the episode, subscribe and please tell everyone. Fantastic to have you on this episode of Leadership Bites welcome.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    00:23 

Thank you so much. Thank you. Delighted to be here. Thanks, guy.
 
 

Guy Bloom    00:27 

I'm super excited. I keep saying that I've noticed on each one of my episodes I go I'm so happy to have you here, whereas I've been genuinely happy to have people i'm i'm genuinely happy to have you on so.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    00:38 

I echo that as well.
 
 

Guy Bloom    00:40 

You know, we've known each other for some time, but do that introduction to so we got a sense of you.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    00:44 

Yeah, of course. I'm Elena Mortimer Zika. I'm the CEO of a business called Iris Software Group. Iris is one of the largest software businesses in the UK that are privately held. This piece of transatlantic business, we are a market leader in the UK, but we also have 20 % of our business out of the Americas now got about 3000 People that work at Iris are amazing people and what they do is provide software and services to about a hundred thousand businesses in the UK and North America and globally. Provide them with software around finance, HR, payroll. About 50 % of the England schools are our customers, about 50 % of the UK accountants are our customers, and then we pay about one in five people in the UK and 6 million people globally. So have a look at your pay slip because the chances are you might be paid by Iris.
 
 

Guy Bloom    01:41 

I know being at school there is the IRIS app.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    01:43 

Yes, absolutely. If you're a parent, you might know parent mail and you might know isams. So we have some some great, great products.
 
 

Guy Bloom    01:53 

And then just to give a size of turnover for the organisation, which always I think helps people contextualise just what, what is it that we're dealing with, what, what are we dealing with when it comes to Iris?
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    02:03 

So IRIS has got a revenues of about three hundred and twenty million pounds and e b does of about a hundred and fifty million pounds so it's quite a big business now valued at over three billion pounds and that's why I said it's, it's one of the very, very few large businesses in the UK that remain private. We are private equity backed. We are backed by HG Capital and ICG HG in particular have had ownership of virus on and off for the last 16 years and that's been fantastic because we have learned a lot and we have grown a lot together.
 
 

Guy Bloom    02:40 

People listening won't know I work with you as an organisation, you and to add what value I can do with the senior team, etcetera. I think your journey is particularly valuable to understand because when we're gonna talk about culture, we're going to talk about leadership and teams. It's easy to. Be relatively trite on these topics and just list the things that are inherently valuable. But I also know that you have a passion and each very much linked to your identity. Give people a sense of that journey that took you from born on hilltop through to blimey, I'm in charge of IRIS.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    03:13 

It could be it was preordained. These things would happen. And then others. It's like, I don't know how the hell it happened, you know? But be good just to get a sense of that journey. And that will help people have even greater value, I think, when they hear you. Talk about things wow how long have we got? I was born in Albania. And for those of you that don't know, Albania is a small country that used to be under strict dictatorship for 50 years. So I was born into dictatorship. That meant the country was pretty close, though. Nobody was allowed in or out of the country. You don't need anybody that's not Albanian. You're there's no foreign TV allowed apart from we were allowed four hours of TV a day and Norman wisdom randomly was. One of the only shows that we could watch his character Pitkin was we were allowed to see that so he is much much loved in Albania. So there is a a little fact.
 
 

Guy Bloom    04:05 

I've heard that the dictator of Albania absolutely loved Norman wisdom, and I'd always wondered if that was. Yeah, those kind of folklore things, but it clearly i think.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    04:14 

That. Because it's humour was quite obvious and obvious and not political. We were allowed to watch him and was one of the very few things we could watch. That was an Albanian TV, so it was. It was great for us but it's a very, very different upbringing. And then when I was 15 years old I went for an interview amongst many other 15 year olds in Albania to get a scholarship to come to the UK and I was the lucky winner of that scholarship. And so I came at the age of 16 to college called United World College of the Atlantic. It's in Wales. They are 18 of these colleges across the world. And their premise is to unite the world. They Mandela was one of the original sponsors. His vision was that education is a great tool to unite the world. And you can be very clever and you can be very talented. But if you are born in a country like Albania, then the chances are you're not going to be given the same opportunities as somebody that's born in a country like the UK. Therefore the world leaders, etcetera are never going to be diverse enough and come from those countries. So his vision was he wanted to give. The rights to the best education to every single child that deserved it. So at 16 years old is quite an important age. You're old enough to know your mind, young enough to be molded. It's the age where you do sort of a levels in. In my case I did International Baccalaureate and so I came as the only Albanian for in the college for that year and I went to a College of 200 kids from 135 different countries. So to put that in context. That I hadn't met anybody that was an Albanian before. This was a massive, massive, overwhelming, challenging and amazing, all in equal measure experience for me, and probably the most defining thing that happened to my in my adult life and my professional career. Because the only way I can describe it is that in my world. Just became big overnight. That's the only that the easiest way to say it. You know, I realised how much more there were there was to learn. I was suddenly dead. You know, one of the least smart people in the room as I'm surrounded by amazing, amazing, talented 16 year olds and. And I learned a lot. I learned about diversity because all of my friends came from genuine different paths of life different leafs different, um, you know, economic backgrounds from royalties to war ridden countries. And the beauty of that is that we all approach the same thing from a different angle because we had different points of view. And what that does is that when approached with exactly the same problem, looking at it from a different angle gives you a perspective that leads to a better outcome in the end. Fundamentally, that's why I have been for many, many years a massive supporter of diversity. Not because it's a tick in the box and it's the right thing to do, but because it genuinely is good for business. It makes your decision making better because people from different backgrounds will make your world bigger and therefore will think of more things and bring different points of view to the table. So that was a key thing that I learned.
 
 

Guy Bloom    07:48 

I've seen these things on YouTube where they've given somebody that's colour blind a pair of glasses that allows them to see colour. And the revelation of putting them on and justice, it's the same world but fundamentally different. I don't know why, but when you just said about that, I can imagine you win a scholarship and you go, OK and you know what you're gonna do, but you don't know what you're gonna do. I imagine it's almost that moment of that first day. You must it literally must have been like putting on a new pair of glasses and going ohh my goodness, I can only imagine.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    08:18 

It that's a really good description. I'm going to use that in the future. It honestly was, and I mean, I I didn't know. I didn't know a thing. Guy, you know? Didn't even I look back now and obviously I was excited to be winning this and as an impressionable 16 year old, going to the UK and and being given this opportunity was fantastic. But I hadn't thought it through at all. Neither had my parents, you know, they didn't want to deny me this amazing opportunity but my mum fainted at the airport because suddenly she realised she's letting go of her daughter. She's, you know, she hasn't seen the school, she doesn't know where I'm going, you know, I had to get a visa to arrive. The first time I'm on a plane, I had 100$ on me, not even pounds, because you couldn't even buy pounds in Albania. And so I hadn't thought it through at all. You know, the weather was different. That didn't speak the language. I had never seen a laptop. You know, it. It was a massive learning curve and one of those where you can sink or swim. And for me, I knew that I would regret going back. I knew that this was an amazing opportunity and as hard as it was, particularly the homesick. Yes, that was really, really difficult actually. Genuinely, there's a genuine pain in your chest when you wake up every morning going ohh my God I miss, I miss home. And I understand my estimated that, but I did know that this was. So unique and I would regret giving up. So I owed it to myself to give it the best shot. And that's what I tried to do. And as I said, it was the platform and the most fundamental thing that's happened to me that has, you know, genuinely created the leader that I am today. And I probably didn't appreciate the magnitude of how much you know it. It meant to me as well. Until I went back. I went back for my 10 year reunion and then I went back to my 20 year reunion and that was even more meaningful because I was, you know, I was 3637 then and I was more established in my career. And I'm looking at this going, wow, that's that's that's why I am the way I am. That's where I learned and I took my little boy there for the 20 year reunion and I took my mum as well. And this was the first time my mum saw the school where she'd sent me when I was 16 year olds. From Albania. It's crazy because she wasn't allowed to have a visa for a long time, so she couldn't come to my graduation or anything like that, so.
 
 

Guy Bloom    10:54 

There wasn't just a video message there where you could just go hang on here, let me show you around.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    10:59 

No, no. Fax machine? I don't know. Do you remember taxis I used?
 
 

Guy Bloom    11:05 

You know what? The fact that you think I'm not that old is a beautiful thing. And we'll go. I'm pleased we've captured this to her. Remember fax machines?
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    11:14 

Honestly, I had seen this. Fact is, I used to get from my family and my friends and I actually found them a few months ago. And I had, you know, I'd wrap them up and stuff and I opened them up and they've disappeared, you know, the ink has just gone. So they were just empty bits of paper now, which is really, really sad, but. Yeah, it's a long way of saying actually you are absolutely right. It was like saying world, the world in colour for the first time so and I am going to use that.
 
 

Guy Bloom    11:44 

I just wanted to share that because I think it's it, it feels as if whatever comes next that was a moment. I mean having a, having the parents, I'm sure that installed certain behavioural kind of boundaries and expectations. I mean all these things you know, but that's, that's, that's a big jigsaw piece, but then this is obviously you know, the next big jigsaw piece that you know. This shouldn't have happened yeah where? Where would I be? What would I be doing, you know?
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    12:10 

Absolutely and, and, you know and it did teach me. It genuinely taught me a lot. It did teach me about, you know, being resilient because as I said, at 16 years old you miss your mum. You know that they're they're tricky years. You miss feed and the weather is not like in Albania. It rains a lot in Wales and and you know, there's a lot of bright kids you're surrounded by and your world is big and so you do sink. Swim a little bit and and and that makes you more resilient, you know? It makes you fry really hard and that's a great skill to have, isn't it?
 
 

Guy Bloom    12:44 

It isn't. Just before we move on, I'd be interested just because I have a sense that what was going on in that school sounds as if it was almost a training ground for conversations, conflicts, understanding people. I have a sense that that that was there's a lot of that going on probably by design because that's possibly what it's all about as well. But I imagine you could sort of take a strand and go, yeah I can, I can directly draw a line back to. Without those times, and I can see that's how that set me up to succeed for the shenanigans I was then going to get into, you know, as I got into the commercial space.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    13:23 

100 % look, it's like an amazing social experiment, right? You bring in. 200 kids from different paths, religions, beliefs, as I said, old enough to be opinionated, young enough to be molded together to. Get i mean, the motor was international understanding. I mean the whole premise of it was that we are all different and that's what makes us amazing. And our different points of view are all worth listening to. But there is a point. There is a point where you can look at the greater good. There is a point at which you can see that there is Nash equilibrium. And by understanding each other's point of view, we can coexist and make better decisions for the world. And leaders can look at a bigger world than consider everything rather than one thing. Because we are. We are born with bias and we are conditioned to think and behave in a certain way. And when you bringing different people together from different backgrounds that allows you to break those biases that unconsciously you have built overtime or consciously you know, so you can actually you yourself can grow. And I mean we had I came here in 9698 said at the time there was war going on between Palestine. And Israel, as we all know, these countries have been at conflict for a long time. And you know, we had, I had friends from both countries and they had to coexist and live in the same house and eat in the same place. And I always think if they could do it, if they could, despite being conditioned to, you know, not like each other, if they could live in that environment and. Be talked to to see each other's point of view. Then when we look at business and conflicts and things we're dealing with, that's nothing. We can all overcome any kind of disagreements that we have in business because fundamentally there is a greater good and there is that those conflicting truths, if you are presented with all of them, you can create a different version of the world that sits with everybody where people don't have to. Fully agree. But they can accept and they can respect each other's point of view and I think that's really important.
 
 

Guy Bloom    15:47 

So so from there, what? Where did you move?
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    15:49 

So I went to I went to Reading University because I was very lucky to get a scholarship, and again back in 1998 House education was. Free for British students. I know you have to pay today you didn't have the time for university as a foreign student. I had to pay quite a lot, and my parents couldn't afford that. And I was. I got very lucky that Reading University that year decided to give International Baccalaureate scholarships, and I was the lucky winner of one. I studied accounting and economics. I was always going to do that. That wasn't a surprise, because my dad was an economist and accountant. Um, my dad is my hero. And I love maths. He loved maths. He taught me to love maths. And my earliest memories of me and him together are we don't walk to my nan's house everyday. And as we walk there he'd give me this maths puzzles to do. And he always joked that I could do arithmetics in my head and and add things up before I even could write numbers down. So he really, really nurtured me to have a love for numbers and I looked up to him and as I said, he was an economist so I wanted to see. Like my dad. So I never questioned that. That's what I wanted to do. So I did an account to see an economics degree. And there was very interesting because economics in Albania was, you know, interest was very different because we were a centralised economy under dictatorship. There is no free trade, there is no supply and there is no demand. The government decides what they're going to sell, who they sell it to. So I couldn't turn to my dad to learn about economics. So I had to learn. For myself and in a different language and that was challenging. But I, you know, I was very lucky. I got a first class degree and really, really passionate about being an accountant and I think it's a. Fantastic profession that can add a lot of value. And I think in challenging times in particular, accountants can play a really, really key role in the economy. So I'm very proud to be an accountant. Even though I'm now the CEO of Iris, I always say I'm an accountant. And I then went to pick four. I started with Arthur Andersen first. And then at Deloitte because Deloitte took over Arthur Anderson as part of the post poster Enron merger. So I spent nine ten years there and then moved into a private equity backed business that was one of my clients at the time business called decision. So since 2010 I have only done private equity businesses in tech and software and that fits with what Iris does today as well and my journey at Iris. Bought it six years ago this week, exactly six years ago as the CF a I did that for two years and then I was very lucky to be promoted to see Ohh. Did that for a year and now I've been CEO of the business for three years and genuinely have the best job in the world. I love it.
 
 

Guy Bloom    19:08 

So I notice something. You say I'm lucky. Instead of I worked my ass off and I'm I'm lucky to have got that scholarship. I'm lucky to have got that degree. I'm lucky to have got that promotion.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    19:24 

And yes, I mean it. It is a lot of hard work I do. I do like the phrase of, you know, the harder you work, the luckier you get. So you do make your own luck. I do still. Feel that there were certain times in my life where opportunities were presented to me, and I think that is a bit of luck. And I'm grateful to those people that presented those opportunities to, you know, whether it was my teachers that decided at 16 was going to be the one representing my school or bosses that have promoted me to roles above my being honest, my level of expertise on paper because I knew I could. Achieve it because of my attitudes rather than necessarily 20 years doing something. So I'm grateful to all of those things, to all of those people and opportunities. And then absolutely I it's taken a lot of hard work to make sure that they never regretted making their decision and I never let them down. And what that's done is opened up more opportunities, which has been fantastic.
 
 

Guy Bloom    20:30 

And that's, that is. And the reason I raised that is it's not that so much that you self deprecate, but I think there is something about humbleness and about modesty operating at a senior level. You have to recognise your your skills, you have to know what your competence is. You have to know look I'm, I'm, I am good at that. But it's a very fine line that people tread between recognising that their excellent at something and then thinking they're excellent.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    20:58 

Yeah, I mean and I'm confident. But I don't wanna stretch that to cocky and arrogant. I myself don't like that trait. So I'd rather speak my work. I'd like, I'd rather let my work speak for me rather than tell the world how amazing I am. So, but that's just the personal thing, you know, at the end of the day, when you're a leader. And I have to say this, the role of leadership, I believe, has changed anyway over time, and leaders were expected to be stern and authoritative. And have this gravitas. And I think now people appreciate this, my opinion anyway. People appreciate leaders. Obviously you've got to be strong, obviously gotta make decisions and give certainty. But they appreciate seeing you as a human as well. They appreciate seeing your humility and your vulnerability. And I think COVID in particular was fantastic for that because in COVID, suddenly and rightly so, vulnerability became a strength. Rather than a weakness. And I don't think as leaders we should ever lose our human touch or people. At the end of the day we talk to people and if we want to be followed and trusted by our employees, they've gotta relate to us at that level. We can't put ourselves on some pinnacle above that and and people going. But you gotta be very special to be CO you gotta work really, really hard and be as good person and know what you're doing and have the right team. But it's achievable and to make that. Journey achievable for people. You've gotta connect and relate to them. You can't put yourself in some in some pedestal that looks. A completely, entirely different world to what their world is, in my opinion anyway.
 
 

Guy Bloom    22:46 

And that's very powerful, that willingness to show you my vulnerability. Don't confuse that with me being vulnerable yes and I think that's, you know, and if you do, that'll be a mistake you'll possibly only make once, not because I'll be aggressive about, but I'll educate you, particularly in that male space, that fulfilling the caricature of that be strong driver that look as if you have authority. And fill the caricature of strength. It's something that I absolutely see and I've seen you do masterfully, which is I'm going to have compassion. I'm going to show you my humanity. But let's be clear, we're not running a kibbutz.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    23:26 

We're definitely not.
 
 

Guy Bloom    23:28 

That's like raising children, isn't it? As in, it's almost impossible to get it right all the time. And I think that's the thing. Isn't if I'm going to show you compassion, then I run the risk that you may take that as weakness, OK. And if we do get there, we'll have that conversation. You've always got to take a position, and when you take a position, it's going to be open to interpretation and people aren't going to be used to it. And the reason I wanted that educational Jigsaw piece to be filled in, what a learning space that set you on that right path. And it's it's probably in you inherently as well.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    23:57 

That guy part of it is that genuinely my early experience when I said it, it made my world bigger. I think my world has stayed big since then and what that means is that I have a thirst for learning. No matter how much I learn and I grow and I succeed. The world is just getting bigger and bigger, so there is a lot more to learn and grow and succeed, and that's always going to be my mindset. So I I am not the kind of person that's going to sit in the room and act as the smartest person in the room because I don't think I need to be. I think my job is to hire amazing people and learn from them, and that would be ideally the Nirvana situation. But of course, I am the person in the room who's going to make the decision and stand by the decision and holds the accountability and responsibility. For the you know for the for the good of the business, but I do think. It's it's that first for learning and that work in progress and accepting that as a leader I think is really, really important. I actually get quite put off. On a personal level by people that think they are the finished product. Because to me that just means you've got a fixed mindset and we we can't go anywhere with that. We've all gotta keep a gross mindset, especially in today's world where there is so much change happening around us, where there is so much technology, tech adoption much more than ever before, where there's an economy disruption that's going on, we've got to be flexible as leaders, so actually. It's great that you've got 20 years of knowledge and something that's fantastic, but you still gotta keep that up to date and keep learning. Because what was good yesterday and what worked for yesterday doesn't work today, so nobody should be a finished product. I can't. I can't deal with it. There's nothing I can do with the finished product. I can't grow you and you can't grow me, and that's how I feel about it.
 
 

Guy Bloom    25:57 

And, and that's a curiosity mindset. That's the agile learner. That's all these phrases that we have. And I and I think I I really have a sense of when I'm got programs at in terms of my business, when I'm dealing with talent or doing a talent programme for those kind of aspiring managers and leaders, whatever that might be. One of the big things that people sort of say is, you know, in in terms of me moving forward, in terms of me getting promoted, this idea of gravitas and weight having presents. I joke about it cause somebody once said to me, do I just have to get older and I go, well, that is a strategy. But, you know, it's gonna take a while. If you're in your early twenties you know, you might want to do a slightly accelerated version of that. And I've come to a position now what you've really got to do is have a relationship with learning that is on a very broad spectrum and you've got to take an interest in things that are outside of necessarily what you're interested in. That's not that you have to be an expert in everything, but I notice when I'm in a room with people exact level, for example, and I'll say, so, you know, Tik, tok the majority some will go yep others will go never even been on it i don't mean you have to be an active participant uploading stuff onto tik tok but that means you don't even really know what the point of reference is you don't really understand what's going on you don't have a sense of that pulse ohh it's not a big thing is it for a certain demographic it's their entire life or it's it's a jigsaw piece in their life you've not even visited in it it's like saying i don't like thai food have you ever had it no well you gotta put one piece in your mouth to have an opinion right and that curiosity mindset you don't have to adopt it you don't have to become it but you've gotta get it and that's where i see people fall down and that's the thing i encourage twenty five year olds that even thirty year olds don't let it go.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    27:44 

Completely, completely agree with you. I actually hire for curiosity and I've done for the last 20 years and I've asked people question. Tell me out of 10 how curious you think you are and always think is there not question. And I think it makes absolute sense because if you're curious, you've got a thirst for learning, you're going to find out more things that somebody doesn't and actually you're going to be innovative. There is better decision making and more innovation that comes out of curiosity than anything else. I think it's, it's super, super important. It also means that you can. Think wider and it's back to that. Your world is is is bigger again. For me, being a parent is actually one of the most. Humbling, but also experiences that I've learned a lot from. Seeing the world from the eyes of your children because they are curious by nature. I think we're all born curious. And then somehow we lose it. We get conditioned, biased I don't know. Yeah, and we lose that curiosity that children have. And I, when I see the world from the eyes of my children, it's it's actually a really, really eye opening. Amazing experience how? Less biased they have, how they will ask questions and without worrying like how will it come across if I just ask this, how far they push it. You know I read this interview in this experiment a while ago about. Different groups of people's children and adults were asked about if you could have one power, what would it be and the adults turned around and when I want to lose some more, some weight. I don't know, maybe you might ask. You might ask for the hair thing guy just saying. Just saying. But then the kids were like, I wanna fly. And it's amazing that it's amazing how their boundaries and their bar is so high. Because your curiosity and their their sense of what's possible and impossible is is is far bigger than than some of us who have been over years of bias decided that I can only go so far and I have to be a certain way in order to succeed. No, go and fly, get yourself some wings. You know the impossible can be possible. And he keeping that growth mindset is really important. And to succeed, I think.
 
 

Guy Bloom    30:03 

When it comes to innovation, there has to be a psychological safety. There has to be a sense of I'm not gonna invalidate my entire personality here by coming up with an idea that actually may not really be the answer, but may be a trigger. I do exercises with teams. If I give you the rules of the game and then I say you can't eat until you solve it yourself, most people would die. But actually as a team it relies on somebody having a stupid idea for somebody else to go ohh no, not that. That this and then the bouncing effect builds this solving and and lose that very very quickly. And I noticed with my 10 year old Milo some years ago he said why are umbrellas called umbrellas and not rain blockers or something like.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    30:44 

That I love it. I love it see and you and you kind of go ohh I don't know son.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    30:50 

You can't argue with that, can you?
 
 

Guy Bloom    30:53 

No, because in terms of naming conventions, that wasn't a phrase he used. He would go, well, why would you call it that? Why are we calling it that and not this? While we're calling it the model thirty two gb point four, why don't we call it the Jonathan or something? Something they can wrap their head around? All these little things are these curiosities. That willingness to be playful doesn't mean you're messing about no and and I think what happens is as we grow, we accept somethings to just be true through conscious or unconscious bias and we don't question them right. You've never question one umbrella is cold an umbrella. You've just accepted that that's what it is. And having that growth mindset and that curiosity allows you to question the status quo. And throw out ideas out there. And that's why for me, it comes back to diversity. That's where having different people in the team from different backgrounds. And I don't mean just race, you know, and I don't mean just male and female, I do mean by different from different backgrounds, nationalities, beliefs, parts of life. Economic backgrounds means that they all have a different level of bias that have accepted in life. Which leaves for different level of questioning because for some of them they will question why an umbrella is golden umbrella whilst others have. Connected it. So it brings more challenge to the table, more discussion, more innovation, more decision making. And I mean it's an interesting one that the comment you made about how many people are worried maybe about saying the wrong thing or making the wrong decision or. My experience of life and and and working in in leadership for many years now is that there are very few. Business decisions that are irreversible. So why does it matter the wrong like genuinely I'm not a surgeon on an operating table doing open heart surgery. If I made a wrong decision there that could cost them that his life. So that is a high pressure and I have a lot of respect for people that do that in my job and in 99 9-9 % of the businesses. You make a decision and then you realise 2 weeks in, three weeks in whatever that was the wrong decision, you can just reverse it. And I always say to people, if in doubt, tell me how much you're going to sink before we realise that it's the wrong decision. How are you going to fail fast? Whatever idea you bring to the table, if I'm a bit dubious about it cause we're going ohh OK just tell me what do you need to prove that this is going to succeed or not? How will you fail fast? And if they can't answer that question then that's a different thing. But if they can answer that question, the reality is you didn't lose a lot and you learned a lot by failing fast for the next things just. Just pick up anyway, cause what's the worst going to happen.
 
 

Guy Bloom    33:41 

And that's that psychological safety space. I think with psychological safety, that's almost as if people want the culture to make it so safe that I don't have to have any resilience or personal accountability.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    33:51 

Well, you have accountability, right?
 
 

Guy Bloom    33:54 

I go no, no, we can't make it so gentle that nobody would raise an eyebrow. As in, look, if you made a decision that you absolutely guaranteed would be correct at the level that you're operating, and then it turned out to be fundamentally wrong we may have to have a conversation about that. It's not safe in the sense of the may not be a raised eyebrow all the way through to a harsh conversation. What is safe is to go, hmm, should I turn right? That's what I need from you, to have the bravery and the accountability.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    34:22 

And and I genuinely think that first of all from my experience, no decision is worse than the wrong decision. So just wait and see doesn't really work in business. You know, we're not going to wait and see what the interest rates might. Due to our cost of capital, we're gonna have to plan for it now. We can't wait until things have gone so bad because by then it's too late. And so I think making fast decisions is better than waiting for perfect data to make the decisions number one number. Two my experience, is on the whole the, majority of the people that we employ are good people that want to do a great job. You know, nobody wants to get up in the morning to go and do a bad job. People take pride in what they do. Yes, there is a transaction. You know, they get paid for doing. You know, they get paid X, we're doing Y. But on the whole, people spend time at work, essential amount of their day at work. So they, you know, they love what they do, they wanna add value, they wanna understand how what they're doing has had an impact. So on the whole, people are competent and they care. There's always going to be some. But generally if a bad decision is made, it wasn't made because people didn't care. It wasn't. Maybe because they are so incompetent that their job. Because you'd like to think that there are measures in place in any business where you have got performance review etcetera, where you wouldn't allow those people to be in charge of decisions. It happened because they had incomplete data or you know, some sort of information at that point in time that made them think we will go left when we should have gone, right. So it's okay, isn't it? It's okay to go. I should learn more and I should have done better or actually in hindsight. But hindsight is a great thing. And we can't invent it. I could have gone the other way. As long as you are accountable, as long as you go, I've learned these three things, and I'm now going to take those three things into my next thing. If you make the same decision wrong twice in three times, then that's just, you know, that's not acceptable because we have to learn from decisions, right? So and your position and those acquisitions and there's integrations and there's well now we've got 3000 people and now it's not just national, it's international and we're probably we might even dare. They used to start to use the word global and then you, you know, it's a, it's an interesting thing to be from. I'm the CEO of a business with the ability to have reach and then I'm for some people, I'm kind of potentially a figurehead. I'm somewhere over there. And what's the reality of growth and maintaining culture?
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    37:01 

It's it's a very good question, something I'm really passionate about. And the answer is it. It's really hard, right? So I met somebody. One of our employees the other day who had been at Iris for 10 years, and they said when they joined Iris, they remember going for lunch with the CIA. Cia would take every new joiner out for lunch when they joined. How fantastic is that as part of your onboarding, right so. Using they're going ohh God I don't do that. And to put it in context, I reasonably had 200 people then it with one at head office, right, with one all in one place, and now we have 3000 people in. 20 odd offices and many countries and that's just and we work virtually and all of that. So that's just become impossible anyway, even if I wanted to do it and we hire 100 people every month. So you know the size of the problem if you like or or the opportunity is different. So what do I do? I think it needs to start with top down. I think. I think the first thing to do is you need to create clarity of the business and for what you stand for. When I joined Iris, Iris had was still quite big, made forty five million pounds or maybe da. It now makes three times that had 700 people and had grown by acquisition quite a lot. And actually if I'm honest, it was a House of brands. The acquisitions hadn't been integrated into Iris. So we had employees with their old email, addresses none of them had an iris email. Address the offices had been kept the same, the products hadn't been branded. I'm not even sure if they employees knew their work for Iris. They still thought they worked for the business that employed them because there was number sign of virus, right. We had just bought this successful businesses and and they had done amazingly well, but we had an integrated. 21 So the first thing I did when I took over as CEO actually when I had responsibility for our people function as well, is higher and amazing Chief People officer who is awesome and then genuinely decide to go right? What are we about? We need a mission because we didn't have these things right. The basics, the brilliant basics. We need a mission, we need a vision and we need a set of values if we expecting to corral our amazing employees behind. Iris and what is Iris's identity? What do we stand for? So we came up with our mission, our vision. Steph actually took 100 values. So any value you could potentially think of to all of our employees and they chose their top, their ranks with them and then we picked the ones that they ranked the most if not the highest did that makes sense and chose those and actually made a word out of it. So we've got six values in iris a day they send for impact. Making it happen. Passion, accountability, customer and teamwork. Sorry, the first one that I is innovation, but they spell the word impact and we did that on purpose because we wanted them to remember it because how often do you have company values that are on some wall somewhere but you ask the people what are they and they go well. I think it's integrity one of them because that makes sense, would have that and maybe is it trust? I don't know, maybe it's customer and and actually what you realise is you need. You need to make your values part of your everyday culture. So we spell the word impact with them and each value stands on its own. So there is a mug for innovation and being curious and there is a mug for accountability back to what we were discussing earlier. There is a Mike, you know, a mug for making it happen because you should make decisions quickly. So all the stuff we've talked today, but there is also impact mugs and impact awards, most importantly because whilst you've got a laminate. And I genuinely think you should, because people respond to visuals. So they need to be on walls, in offices, they need to be on your desktops, they need to be on these mugs and pens so people understand you're taking those values seriously, not just in the head office, you've also got to celebrate them because laminating is not enough. So you've got to make them part of your culture. So we have impact awards at IRIS and every culture. Employees will vote for each other. It's run by employees, for employees to show that certain. Less than has demonstrated one of Iraq's values. So as we buy businesses, we now have a platform. We know what our identity is. We know what the values are that we stand by the most. And as part of onboarding this new employees, we onboard them through our iris values and what's important to us. And let's be clear, these values aren't. You know extraordinary. They're not, they're, they're normal things that everybody would think that makes sense and every business if you set them down will say, of course I look after my customers and I care about customers. Of course I think teamwork is really important. Of course I think innovation is key. So, so it's just about making sure that they understand we hold this to high bar. We will judge you on them in your objectives and your appraisals. We will celebrate you with the boards when this happens so that they know what we're about. And then you communicate, right. So every time we buy a business, I um have an A call with every single employee, all employees to tell them about me, the person iris, the business they joined our culture what we are about and of course my leadership team does the same. We have an MNA integration team now that whose full time job is to think about what are we going to do with this business when we buy it and how will we make them feel part of Iris and they are the. Teaming between the new business and Iris so they don't have to go to five or six people and go, where do I find XYZ They've got a person dedicated to making their transition as smooth as possible. And I do calls with new employees that we have to as part of on boarding and explaining what Iris is about. And then every Friday I do a blog to all of our employees. So if you become a new employee of virus, you get it every Friday where I am. Tell you a little bit about the weak and what I've done, but most importantly, what has happened at Iris and what our iris heroes have done and how have they demonstrated our values and our culture and and and who should we thank? And who has gone over and above from customers and who's doing charity work and all of that comes together. So communicate, communicate, communicate, and then make sure that if you choose something, in this case your values, you live by them because it's not something you do. Once every few years and forget about it by printing it on some head office wall. You have gotta live and breathe them and demonstrate as a leader that you are showing those same values because people are led by us.
 
 

Guy Bloom    44:07 

And that's the phrase that actually I think sums all of that up. Communicate, communicate, communicate. And then when you think you can't communicate anymore, communicate. One of the analogies I have is the beat of the drum, which is takes a long time. People can hear the noise, but they may not. Pick up the tune.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    44:23 

Yeah, I agree.
 
 

Guy Bloom    44:24 

You can go boom, boom, boom, boom, boom and people go there's something happening over there. But if I said replicate that beat, hearing the noise isn't the same as recognising the beat.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    44:33 

100 % and people, to your point, you know, I live and breathe. This is my day job and this is my life. So it's obvious to me. It's not so obvious to everybody, right? And, and often I've gone how? How come you don't know about strategy? I explained that three months ago, and then I'm sitting there going 2 hours of their life three months ago. How is there going to be some? Horrible for them. So we have a a week monthly old employee call where myself and ex girl and some of our SLT will talk to all 3000 employees and tell them what's going on at Iris. So we had ours yesterday for this month and one of the standard slides that I now present every single month. These are four priorities as a business that were decided at the start of our financial year seven months ago and it's the same slide and I genuinely repeat. The same slide every month because people have to hear it over and over again to. To actually to fully sink in and for it to actually give the consistency that they need as a leadership team. You can't be just going like this. You've gotta go. These are our priorities. Let me remind you again why it's important. And every role that you play is feeding in one of these because some of you are new, some of you are, you know, making a coffee when I mentioned it last time and you don't tell you everyday in your day jobs, right? So let me tell you again and people need to hear the same message over and over again for it to really resonate. Um, so rather than just hearing new things all the time, because that creates a bit more chaos.
 
 

Guy Bloom    46:05 

Yeah, you're making meaning for people by saying hey, you're you're piece of the the system feeds that piece of the system. People often have to hear it, not just enough to understand it, they have to hear it enough to realise it's not going away. That's true. So intellectually I can get it, but I also probably am quite busy and is this one of those things that if it's gonna be I'm used to historically 2 months of this, then it'll be the next thing. Hold on, it's two months on. Ohh they're still saying it. Ohh it must be real.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    46:33 

In summary, I have to say culture is evolving and you have to take it seriously. It's not a tick in the box, it's not something that your HR department can do for you. It's the responsibility of all the leaders in the business and it comes from the very, very top and my genuine. The face that you can't fake it. You know you've gotta be passionate as a leader about the business you're running and what that business stands for. And then you've got to live by those standards and by those values, yourselves and yourself, not just expect others to do it for you because. You know you don't have a business without your people and your people are are the biggest asset you have and the biggest costs in your PNF. So in order to get the right arrow I you've got to get the most out of them and it's your job as a leader to treat them as being the most important tool you have to succeed. Otherwise the business is not going to succeed. So I do think leaders have to be passionate about people for this to work. I genuinely believe that and and an iris, we now are a great place to work, great place to work in tech, great place to work for women, great place to work for Wellness. And that's really important because I want our employees to work for a business that cares. Are we perfect? Absolutely not. But do we have good intentions and are we trying to do the right things all the time? Yes and that's key because these employees have choices. They don't have to come and work at Iris. There are lots of jobs out there and we as leaders have to recognise. That you know they chose us so we've got to set them up for success and give back is the same way as we are expecting. Hard work, accountability, fast decision making, passion, innovation, curiosity. So it's it's a two way street the more you give the more you get and we both have to give, they have to give and we have to give.
 
 

Guy Bloom    48:29 

So I'm going to start to bring the plane into land on this conversation. There's 100 topics, its leadership, its culture, and I could keep you here till 4:00 this. Afternoon it's a great conversation. If somebody said a loner, is there anything I should read or pay attention to? What do you say to those kind of?
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    48:46 

Continuously I say you need to listen to guys podcast.
 
 

Guy Bloom    48:50 

It goes without question, but thank you.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    48:52 

Honestly, I actually quite like listening to podcasts that have got nothing to do with my day job. I listen to podcast. The podcast called Things you didn't know because I worry that I'm so consumed by my by what I do, and this is my passion as well. But maybe I stopped asking questions. Back to your point. Of those other areas that I should know about and I'm not one of the strongest people on a quiz, I don't like that cause I am very competitive. So if it's general knowledge quiz and I like to win. So I I I try to to listen to other things as well because I think it's good for your mind to be broad. I am a part of some networks, so me personally I learned a lot from interaction with other leaders. I am part of a few networks within the private equity as sphere. I'm a patron of Broadway, where there is a lot of CEOs, the Who's who of CEOs, in the software, in the software space in Europe, and actually just sitting next to somebody who's got similar challenges to you. Because let's face it, most businesses are facing the same challenges today, and seeing their approach is what I learn more from. And then the final thing is reading real stories that get quite inspired by. People who have achieved a lot rather than fiction or anything like that I I get inspired by by true stories. So that's sort of what I personally do anyway there is a good thing in books out there and I can advise you books your book living brave is amazing guy but there is no one book right. You've gotta be I think for me is you've gotta have a natural passion about this as well. And you know LinkedIn is an amazing source of a lot of a lot of information and but you learn the most from people. So it's those networks, it's your own team. My team are amazing. I mean, I learn from them everyday. Your employees, that's what teaches you about leadership. Far more than you know some rule book or playbook. I couldn't quote you a specific methodology that I use, but I know that I'm using it without realising. I'm using it because I've naturally, you know, learned it through experience.
 
 

Guy Bloom    51:06 

Ok, we'll listen to learn. I'm going to get you to stay on for a few moments after I press the stop button from me, from the audience. This has been, I'm going to use the word delightful. This has been delightful. I love your your energy and your passion and your clarity and justice. That all shines through and it is indicative of what you are and what you're about and what you create around you. So from me and for those that are listening, thank you so very.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    51:32 

Much thank you guys, been an honour to be part of this and sorry about the hair comment as well.
 
 

Guy Bloom    51:38 

We'll talk about it in a moment.
 
 

Elona Mortimer-Zhika    51:39 

I'm sure we will now. Thank you so much. Thanks everybody for listening to me as well.
 
 

Guy Bloom    51:43 

That's it. So I hope you enjoyed the episode. Please share so others get to hear about us and subscribe so you keep up to date on new episodes. Also visit living brave com if you want to connect with me and find out more about executive coaching, team effectiveness and changing culture. And of course, you can buy my book living Brave leadership on Amazon. So on that note, see you soon.