Guy Bloom (00:01.057)
Super professionalism at our end. So here we go. Uh, Janice, absolutely fantastic to have you on this episode of leadership bites. Welcome.
I'm sorry.
Janice Omadeke (00:11.118)
Thank you for having me.
Well, I'm very pleased. I'm childishly excited about everybody that I speak to. So no reason why I would be different with you. So we've got together. I clearly know who you are. I start all my episodes off in the same way. And the question is, if you're at a social gathering, a barbecue or something, and somebody said, oh, what do you do for a living? How would you, how would you reply to that, Janice?
I would say I'm a recovering tech CEO turned author. I actually typically don't even talk about what I do at a cookout or anything, but I think that would be the title I would use. Very accurate.
I know it's for fear of having to then explain what that actually means to somebody else. That's usually the anxiety people carry. So listen, you have a book that I definitely want to speak to you about. It really caught my eye. Mentorship Unlocked, the Science and Art of Setting Yourself Up for Success. So we're going to talk about mentorship and there's a flipping picture of it as well. Well done. I thought any minute now that'll happen. And just before we do...
Yes.
Guy Bloom (01:19.585)
Give us a little bit of that journey that would explain to people that when we do talk about mentorship, why, ah, that's why she's somebody who is worth listening to in this space. So give us a little bit of the Janice journey.
Yeah, the Janus journey has been fun. It's been interesting. And I also think highly relatable. I'm first generation American. My parents immigrated from the Congo back in the 70s. And so it was a big deal for them to make it from a deficit to just even balance. And early on, I saw my parents have this servant leadership headspace where anytime we had new family,
that was immigrating to the states or friends, they were always mentoring and supporting them, getting acclimated the best way they knew how. And they would get so granular in the details to make sure that no stone was left unturned. And that stuck with me. Those little things that you grow up with in childhood that end up molding who you are. And so I think having that example of mentorship was why I was so disappointed.
when I entered the workforce in 2009 coming from Washington DC entering into defense contracting where mentorship programs were just based on age, race, and gender, things that don't actually matter in mentorship versus values, who you are as a person, especially in corporate mentorship programs just being matched to the only underrepresented leadership.
that participated in the program as well, they didn't go as deep as I thought that they could go to build a sustainable relationship. So I started studying what makes relationships work. I got a certification in entrepreneurship from MIT, strategic management from Harvard, and transitioned into management consulting where I built a program for my virtual team of 40 people and saw the difference when you actually layer in values, who that person is and what makes them unique.
Janice Omadeke (03:22.638)
And so quit that very comfortable management consulting job about a year later, moved to Austin, where I am now in 2018 to continue building out what ended up being my first company, The Mentor Method. And so that business was a platform that helped large companies, including Amazon, Department of Education, Slalom and others, connect their employees to mentors inside where they worked based on personality, values, skills and industry to take a holistic view of.
every employee and make sure that mentorship was something that they could really drive themselves. The company was then acquired September of 2022 and that was an incredible opportunity, but I knew my work in helping people build fulfilling careers wasn't done. And so Wiley actually ended up reaching out to me with the opportunity to write a book and I knew exactly what I wanted to write about. Having just completed, successfully exited out of a startup, I wanted to use those entrepreneurial principles.
to help every professional build the seven mentor relationships I believe they should have across their career lifespan, but do so in a way that was scalable, easy to do, and also took who they are into account. So that's a bit of my journey and how we got here today.
Well, really on point. I appreciate that. Thank you very much. And I'm going to start with the basics because I sometimes think the curse of knowledge means that we can talk from a position where we presume other people know what we're talking about. So there might be some people out there that would go, well, I've heard of coaching, I've heard of mentorship, aren't they the same thing? So it might just be worth getting a little bit of clarity from you on what those differences are.
Thank you.
Janice Omadeke (05:02.318)
Yeah. No.
Yes, I think a big difference is that you do not pay your mentors. You pay a coach. So it's more service and outcome driven versus internal development. A mentor relationship is one where one person with more experience is helping somebody with less experience in a specific area. So that could be program management. That could be graphic design, whatever it is that mentors helping the mentee expand their skill set and acumen.
based on what the mentee wants to work on. The mentee drives the relationship by setting up the meetings, either making the ask for that formal mentorship or sort of driving that relationship forward. When you're working with a coach, they typically have a set program that they'll start running you through in a standard process that as the person paying for those coaching services, you work through that framework with them. I find sometimes it's less tailored.
than mentorship because mentorship is really like a one to one relationship. You both are essentially volunteering your time to be there versus a coach that will have multiple clients and need to kind of scale out their operations more so than a mentee mentor relationship.
There might be slight differences from Europe and the UK to that US model. So I can see that difference between coaching and mentorship. I also notice, and even though it's probably slightly off track, but just to help give that clarity, a lot of coaches that are in my organization, for example, where we work with senior people and senior teams, I think you're quite right. At one end, we're not offering mentorship because we're external and...
Guy Bloom (06:53.441)
sit with a group of people that actually you can have paid for mentors in the UK I'm sure you the same thing must you know must exist all around but very often the coaches are so experienced that they kind of straddle this space of being mentors as well as coaches and I'm wondering if it what you've verbalized there is the differentiation but very possibly for a good mentor the coaching skill.
may also exist even though in 30 commas there may not be called a coach. Is that accurate?
I think the coaching skill is there. There is so some key characteristics I talk about in the book for what to look for in a mentor. One of them is the interest in coaching or having a coaching mindset, meaning that they're able to motivate their mentee to bring out the best possible version of themselves. So your mentor should be able to see you. If you're a circle, they're not trying to turn you into a triangle. They want you to be the best possible circle that ever existed.
whatever space you want to be in and in order to do that you have to be able to see an individual for who they are you have to leave space for vulnerability and real conversations but you also have to be able to coach the mentee to refine their skill set help them broaden their network so that they can reach those goals I think the difference is just mainly that transactional piece of it but yeah I would semi agree with that statement.
No, I think the skills and the spectrum are probably there. It's just the differentiation is probably slightly different in different spaces. Now, you know, I often say, you know, not everybody is coachable. And by that definition, not everybody probably should be a coach. You know, everybody wants to be one these days. And probably there's something about mentorship as a one size fits all. How, yeah, how does one,
Janice Omadeke (08:39.278)
Great.
Guy Bloom (08:57.793)
maybe see mentorship as whether or not it's the right time for you to have one or actually is it, you know what, if you want one, it's probably just the right time.
I think it depends on what you're seeking to expand in career wise. I love what you said the latter portion like I want one. Let me just go find one. But the follow up question I like to ask people and I hear that is okay, but what do you want a mentor to help you with? Like what are you actually working on? I think there's a lot of excitement around the title. But if you haven't done the work to really understand what you want to work on, do you know the types of mentors?
that are out there. Do you want something formal or more informal? Do you want somebody inside your organization or somebody that's external and just an industry expert? Getting very clear around what you want first will help you figure out the right timing for a mentor. Let's say, for example, you are getting ready for a promotion cycle. That's a great time to start.
getting a mentor maybe six months ahead of time so that you can start showing proof points of you expanding your professional acumen to validate your promotional package that should be coming up. And that particular example, I would recommend that individual have a company insider mentor. That's one of the seven categories that I list out in the book. But having a company insider mentor that can help you understand the culture and the promotional process.
have a network mentors that should the promotion not necessarily be available inside your organization, you're expanding your networks that who knows maybe there is an opportunity for you at another company if right now it's just not the best timing, but you know that based on your career goals getting promoted in the next six to 12 months is very important and critical to you. And then maybe you have an influential ally mentor that somebody whose name and weight and reputation are one that.
Janice Omadeke (11:03.566)
is deeply respected by the decision makers and their advocacy for you saying, we would like Jane Doe to be promoted and I think she'd be great at senior manager because of X, Y, and Z actually lends itself very heavily to pushing the needle forward on what you'd like. But it really just depends on the timing, what you'd like to work on. But the more clarity you have around...
what the outcome, desired outcome would be, you're able to then filter and find the right mentors to help you get there.
I have seen people that like the idea of a mentor for the kudos and the more senior I can get them to be then by definition I've you know, wow, I'm already on the fast track. Exactly right.
Right. And that's not mentorship. That is not mentorship. It should not be based on title, number of followers, that external veneer and shininess. Some of my mentors are people that are significantly under the radar, where if you looked at, you know, their LinkedIn, maybe they post once every two years, but they are so...
bright, so intelligent. We've gotten along from a values perspective, and I wouldn't be here today without them. So yeah, anytime I see people that want to focus their mentorship based on the shininess or title, I always ask them to keep an open mind because sometimes you'll overlook incredible opportunities to reach your goals based on that.
Guy Bloom (12:33.249)
And I think that's why some people would like to be a mentor, not necessarily that they should be, but they'd like the kudos of being a mentor. You know, there's that reality for them of, oh yes, and of course I'm a mentor, which is, you know, look at my wondrousness.
I'm sorry.
Yeah.
Janice Omadeke (12:44.942)
Right.
And again, when I've heard that, I ask them, okay, so what type of mentor are you? Out of these seven types of mentors, which one would you say you're the strongest? And I actually do appreciate the Deer in Headlights moment because then you're able to have a real conversation about the fact that, yes, it's a huge honor to be someone's mentor. Like when somebody's asking you to be their mentor, they're saying that they see qualities.
that they would like to emulate in their own career inside of you and they want to learn how to do that too. Like who wouldn't want to feel that after time in the corporate world? But again, I think practicing that self -awareness and self -acceptance to know your bandwidth and what type of mentor you are actually makes you the successful mentor that you would like to be.
No, totally. And you've mentioned the seven types and you've mentioned a few already. So let's get into that. Walk through those seven types of mentors that you need in your life.
Sure.
Janice Omadeke (13:50.926)
happy to. So in the book, and also I have a quiz on my website that you can take to figure out what your next step should be in terms of those seven mentors, because I don't recommend having all seven at once. That's a lot to manage. I think one to three and even three is pushing it. But the seven types. First one is the company insider. This person's insider organization. They can help you understand the culture, promotion.
cycles, understand the key players. The second is the skill master. So let's say you are a graphic designer and you want to refine your video your videography and video editing skills. The first person you think of as being just an expert in that particular skill would make a fantastic skill mentor. So you're just working on just that skill. Maybe it's one to two conversations, but that person will mentor you in how to refine.
that particular area that you're seeking to expand in. Third is the money -minded mentor. This is one of my favorites because they take an overall view of your financial situation so that you're not fully dependent upon work. Let's say you are a senior manager and you know that you want to make a certain amount of money. Let's say you want to make $186 ,000. I think that's like the average.
senior manager salary and management consulting. So that's how much you want to make. Do you necessarily need to do that based on just your employer or can you use a money minded mentor to look at your investments, your side hustles and other routes to build that fulfilling lifestyle that you're seeking to accomplish? Your money minded mentor can help you do that.
Fourth is the industry mentor. This person has significant tenure in the industry. They can help you understand how to start building your own strategic plan to expand in that industry. They'll help you know which professional associations to join to start building more sustainable relationships in the industry, just so that you're not solely dependent on just your employer for that industry experience.
Janice Omadeke (16:05.838)
The network mentor, that's your classic social butterfly. They know everyone across multiple industries and it's important. You know, the world gets smaller the higher up you get and the further along you progress in your career. So having a network mentor will help you learn how to build your own network in a way that feels fulfilling and rewarding to you versus burning you out. The influential ally, as I mentioned before, this person,
Their word goes a very long way. They are deeply respected, highly valued in their space and their advocacy for you also helps break down barriers. I find that the influential allies very helpful for marginalized professionals. So women, people of color, LGBTQ plus, let's say, where sometimes despite having an exceptional portfolio of work, systemic biases can play a part in...
what you actually receive in terms of say promotions or new opportunities and having that influential ally either in the room or connected to those in the room to help mitigate that can be extremely valuable. I've benefited from that significantly. And then lastly is the peer mentor. This person is one to two years ahead of you. So if you're a manager, this person is a senior manager and they recently got promoted to senior manager.
they have an acute understanding of what it's like to be in your position today. And I think sometimes we think about mentorship as, as you were saying, Guy, where you want somebody that's 15 years ahead of you. And that can be very helpful, especially with, say, an industry mentor or a company insider mentor. But having a peer mentor that understands the tools that you're using, what cultures are like now at your current position.
what hiring is like in that current position too, because they just experienced it. You can speak to them in a more vulnerable and more tactile level than you can with them if you're more tenured mentors. So those are the seven.
Guy Bloom (18:10.753)
I like that a lot. Yeah, I think that that's that's fabulous. And I do like this idea actually of somebody that is yet maybe a lot further ahead than you, because actually that could really help because of just the sheer depth of experience and their line of sight on things. But also there is something about somebody that is just ahead of you. And that's that's really quite nice, actually, that just that recognition that somebody is very current, who's doing it not 20 years ago.
Exactly.
Guy Bloom (18:39.585)
but has literally just done it maybe, you know, six months ago, or they've just been through it and they can actually look at you and go, so listen, this is what you need to pay attention to right now. Not what I had to when I did it, but I only did it last week and let me tell you. So that's super, that's an easy one to not think about actually and go for the grander or what might seem like the more wisdom, but in truth, you know, somebody might be very close.
Exactly.
Janice Omadeke (18:52.654)
Right.
Guy Bloom (19:08.289)
and very recent to you. So I like that a lot. In terms of how one maybe not approaches but I think or I can imagine that there are people that themselves maybe are quite well connected they can reach out and engage with people with relative ease because that's maybe their personal character and that's their personal network.
For people that might be a little bit more isolated just because of their experiences or just their personal nature, how do they approach that reaching out, connecting, finding that might be outside of their experience or outside of their network?
Yes. So once you understand what you want to work on with the mentor and also it's a I I'm so happy you brought that up because even in the writing process that was something that was highly contested because a lot of people think that mentorship should just happen organically but for close to half the population mentorship is not something that's as easily accessible.
to all, especially underrepresented professionals or people that maybe regionally are in a smaller city or a small town where the networking opportunities are few and far between. And I don't think that it should be set to just those that are in large cities or are able to work those networking chops. But I, so once you know what you want to work on with your mentor, it's a good idea to start building your mentor persona.
CEOs, heads of sales, top executives understand the persona when it comes to sales and what a company is, who the company is selling their products to. So let's say for example, you are selling a phone. You have to know exactly who you're selling the phone to. You need to understand their emotional and psychological triggers, where to find them, what motivates them to purchase this phone. And the same principles align when you're building your mentor persona.
Janice Omadeke (21:18.158)
It helps you understand who might be a possible fit for a mentor, where they're spending their time, and how best to communicate with them. So once you then build your mentor persona and you kind of know the watering holes or where they might be spending their time, start spending time in those spaces. If you are in a city where you don't have as many networking opportunities, the world is so connected virtually at this point that that actually does not.
preclude you from finding incredible mentors. I have found mentors. One of my mentors lives in Seattle and we've never met in person and I've been working with her since 2021 and that relationship has helped me in so many ways across my career, either in the mentor method or even in Mentorship Unlocked. And there's so many communities now virtually.
LinkedIn groups, affinity groups based on your industry, virtual meetups where you can find other people that share your interests and passions without actually ever needing to leave your home.
Guy Bloom (22:28.641)
So there is something about you cannot just sit there and expect somebody to tap you on the shoulder and say, let me ordain you with my wondrousness and mentor you. I mean, of course, every now and then I'm sure that happens. But there is something about here about having an action plan, about being, you know, one end maybe a little bit brave and just saying, hey, I don't suppose because guess what?
Right.
Hehehehe
Okay.
Guy Bloom (22:57.729)
Every now and then somebody goes, yeah, go on then. And that can be that. But also there is something about the tangible strategy of, yeah, the more connections you have, the more things you're involved with, the more conversations you're having, then by definition, the more likely you are to come across people. And then maybe it'd be on organic. I mean, yes, I can ask you directly, but actually if I tell you what I'm doing.
then that is the kind of thing where somebody might actually say, do you know what, if I can be of help or I can be of service, then I'm very happy to play that role for you. But so there's the strategy. Yeah.
Exactly. But finding the right groups for that conversation to happen is part of the process. And I think too, it's less about because if you're not like say the type A most organized person, that is okay too. But following the methodologies in Mentorship Unlocked, following that process just builds your confidence in general. Like as the CEO of your career, the framework that's laid out.
in the book can be used for, it's applicable in every area of your leadership development. You're going to have to understand how to communicate with a diverse set of people, how to practice self -awareness and vulnerability, but then also be prepared to have difficult conversations, set expectations, lead discussions that lead to either your growth or your company's growth and just other areas of expansion. But I find that whether you are,
more strategic or somebody that likes to see how things happen organically, you feel more confident when you know that you've done everything in your control to find those right connections. You understand your elevator overview. You know that if you ever do need to ask somebody to be your mentor, you have the script to do that. You understand the mentor personas that you're looking for. You just enter into every conversation with.
Janice Omadeke (24:54.382)
a higher level of confidence and less likely to have that like deer in headlights response when like you said guy, somebody says, oh, let me know how I can support you. I'd love to, you know, help you in this particular area. You already know how to respond because you've done that early work.
And I think that speaks to multiple personality types, doesn't it, if you are that very gregarious, if you are that more introverted. But actually, if you have a plan, if you have a strategy, it probably doesn't necessarily matter what your personal characteristics are. Because actually, you have a plan, you have a strategy, you might be quite light, you might be quite quiet, you might be a comedian, you might be more reflective, it doesn't really matter. But if you're in the world following that strategy, guess what? The chances are you're going to get feedback, you're going to be able to calibrate.
Exactly.
Guy Bloom (25:41.953)
So you mentioned that CEO of your career and it'd be great just, I talk about when I'm working with leadership groups, this very well understood concept of being the CEO of you. You're your own marketing director, you're your own finance director and all those kind of ideas. So that kind of thinking of becoming the CEO of your career definitely would seem to fit.
Yes.
Guy Bloom (26:10.081)
into that. And I noticed that one of the things I have a note here with previous conversation is an integrating entrepreneurial thinking. And I guess I'd just like to hear that your thoughts on that becoming the CEO of you in this context.
Yes, right now we're in an interesting...
We're in an interesting spot. If you really study the relationship between employers and employees, there's a bit of a tug of war going on because certain employers would like their employees to return to the way things were previously. Employees have expanded beyond that and really don't feel comfortable going back to the way things were because they weren't equitable, maybe they didn't feel as valued. And in the middle of that tug of war is...
Every employee's career development because as a company goes through layoffs as a company goes through reorganizations or you know restructuring back to either hybrid fully in person maintaining fully remote status sometimes that talent development piece can fall by the wayside and so being able to take the reins and own your career and being the CEO of your career just means that you're not
waiting on the sidelines for your employer to tell you who you're going to be mentored by. You're not waiting for your employer to tell you, you know, what you should be working on over the next six months. You are taking the reins of that, recognizing that your career is taking place at this current employer, but it may not be there forever. So how are you actually building a fulfilling career that regardless of where you work, regardless of who your manager is, you can...
Janice Omadeke (28:00.142)
sleep well at night knowing that you're actually fulfilling your life's purpose. When I refer to being the CEO of your career, I mean that you are making strategic decisions that help advance you. You are thinking in terms, you're pairing data with also just your intuition. Some of the top CEOs are able to have that superpower of combining both.
and then bringing in the right advisors and team around you based on your strengths, skills, qualifications, and where you want to drive your career forward to actually help you do that. The top CEOs are not this like lone wolf trope that we've learned to love so much and, you know, makes HBO a lot of money by doing so. It takes a serious team around.
every strong CEO. Like Steve Jobs had some of the best and brightest minds around him and that's how he was able to push his technologies forward. He was not the engineer, you know, in the back of the room like wiring in everything on your iPhone. Like no, it took a team to actually make that happen. And so the same principles apply in everyone's career. You want the best and brightest around you to help you advance yourself forward, but as the CEO you are responsible for...
building that team, you're responsible for developing the strategy and leading everyone to the point that you'd like to take everyone.
I like that a lot. I think there's something about, you know, if you build a product and open a shop and sit there and then wonder why nobody's buying it, that's because you didn't do anything. You didn't have a strategy, you didn't have a plan, you didn't market, you didn't sell, you didn't... So what we're talking about here is, at its most simple and simplistic, you'd say, being proactive. Yes, okay. But what we're actually talking about here is seeing yourself as...
Janice Omadeke (29:39.406)
Right.
Guy Bloom (29:58.977)
commodity or whatever that might be and not yeah and saying listen you know businesses take time to build I'll take time to build but if I'm just gonna sit here in this company and wait to be promoted I'll let my actions speak for themselves is one of those phrases that I hear and I go and how's that working out for you and that's usually why I'm speaking to them yes exactly and that's it isn't it because some people fine they are high flyers they are spotted they are
and investment piece.
Janice Omadeke (30:14.606)
Right? Right.
Typically not low. Yeah, exactly.
Guy Bloom (30:27.969)
for whatever reasons they just connect there's just an engagement there's just a win that they got that got them spotted you know these things do happen but I do think that the world is full of people that as you quite rightly say they they sought the counsel of they had a process they almost you know sometimes the hair wins but sometimes the
you know, the turtle does as well. And you might be a quick burn, you know, you might have those promotions and that rocket ship of a career. But actually the majority of people, they go sideways a little bit, they have to move into a different role, they have to try something, they have to have some failure. Most people don't have a continual set of successes. In fact, I don't know about you, most of the people I know that are worth listening to, they actually have far more stories about the disasters.
Yes. Yes.
the wrong turns, the decisions they wish they hadn't made. And that's actually why they're very good, because they were out there doing stuff.
No, I 100 % agree with that and I would not have the framework that I share in Mentorship Unlocked had I not tried and failed a thousand times in my corporate career to build mentor relationships. Mentorship wasn't something that I grew up understanding culturally in my family. It was just a big deal to get a job. Like, great, you have a job with benefits. What else? Like, stay there. Like, what are you doing? It's kind of a focus on stability more so than expansion. And so...
Janice Omadeke (31:59.726)
I really had to learn in my own path when corporate mentorship programs weren't necessarily working out for me because they didn't really know how to place me or they are matching based on more of a biased lens than actual, you know, seeing qualities in me that they could see in an executive and making those matches. So I, there was a very long timeframe of trial and error and building my own.
Network, you know my seven mentors I even get into how all seven played a role in my five -year kind of rocket ship from going from you know entry -level graphic designer with four roommates and the DC metro area to paying off all of my student loans and becoming one of the youngest managers in the history of PWC's marketing and sales division. It took a great team. It took a lot of support.
in order for me to learn the skills that were necessary and continue expanding there. So all that to say, I completely agree with you that the failures lend themselves to future growth and also community development when you're able to be in this sort of mentorship capacity to help people navigate those much faster than you were able to and hopefully with less blood, sweat and tears than...
then you had to endure in order to learn those lessons.
I'm quite interested in the fact that once you start doing these kind of approaches, I think there's a narrative around you where maybe people are, yes, talking about you and if they're internal, that can be more useful, maybe they're not. But there's then that internal narrative. And I think there is something about when you know you are trying, when you know you are putting the effort in, when you know that you're being accountable, what I class as above the line behaviour, then you actually...
Guy Bloom (33:53.729)
there is something there about that gives you a resilience that gives you a sense of purpose and I think these are all the factors that it's very easy to go to intellectual or to fantasize a future it's a very different it's a very different thing to go so what are you actually doing about it?
Yes.
Janice Omadeke (34:12.846)
Exactly. It is very easy to journal and make a vision board. It is so much harder to actually turn that vision board into reality.
Yeah, and I think that is the one thing what I'd like to be is beautiful. I'd like to be, you know, I'd like to have a six pack, but guess what? I'm not going down the gym. So it's not going to happen, is it? It's making those connections. Now you talked, you talked about sort of mentor programs within organizations and the experience that you'd had yourself. Now there are, I'm sure organizations that are absolutely knocking it out of the park and doing a great job. And some of the...
Exactly.
Guy Bloom (34:51.073)
aren't, so I'm sure there's a distribution curve in your experience, but what is it that either makes a mentor program succeed or fail?
Budget executive buy -in. Those are two. Actually listening to the employees that you want to engage with in the program. Not being entrepreneurial about the development is a big hindrance. I've told clients this before. If they were hemorrhaging customers or they kept seeing just this gradual decrease of customers, all kind of saying something similar, they would not ignore what...
that customer was saying, it wouldn't matter what department you were in. They would just bring the best and brightest to solve that attrition issue. And when you have a mentorship program, you should have the same approach. You want to make sure that you're actually listening to what your employees have been saying. You have, especially in the enterprise larger company space where you have more than 10 ,000 employees, you have historical data to show which employees.
are more likely to leave or be left out of promotional conversations or raises. You have pulse data to show employees happiness inside your organization or information on past mentorship programs to show what worked and what didn't. And to just kind of throw that away to be able to just put together a mentorship program for the sake of it, it feels like a lost opportunity, I'd say. So.
Being entrepreneurial just the same way, you know, I tell people when they're looking for mentors to build those personas and to have a strategy, corporate mentorship programs should have one as well where it's less about being able to say that they did a program or they have certain success metrics that help their own internal promotion process, but instead treat the employees, both mentors and mentees that are engaging in the program like customers.
Janice Omadeke (36:53.966)
making sure that they're actually getting something out of it, making sure that you're building the program in a way that helps them, then those success criteria will just be a natural occurrence when you have that entrepreneurial lens to its development.
There's something about also mentorship in the sense of being an attractant and a retainer for people. And I don't know specifically what the figures are on that, but my experience is that people are attracted to organisations that they see as having not just the promise of, but a viable working mentorship process that they might have heard about on the grapevine or they actually, do you know what? I'm going to go there for the mentorship programme.
Yes.
Janice Omadeke (37:30.222)
Absolutely.
Guy Bloom (37:37.729)
because actually I can see what happens to people that actually go through that process. So I think that's a highly attractive thing for organisation.
I agree.
Yeah, so in terms of just my last sort of question here is for somebody that goes, I think I'd be a good mentor. You know, I'd like to do that. You know, what are the reasons they should and possibly what are the reasons they shouldn't?
Yes, I have two and a half chapters dedicated to mentors and what it means. I think that's a fantastic question. So many times we just assume that if you've been in the workforce for say 15 years like I've been, that you automatically are qualified to be a mentor, but it actually takes the same amount of training and self -acceptance and awareness and understanding to be an impactful mentor. It's not something that you just wake up being great at. I mean, I think for some people you might be, but...
in terms of the characteristics.
Janice Omadeke (38:44.366)
Being able to coach, but also being coachable is a big one. Because your mentee is going to teach you a lot about yourself. It's a very reflective process when you're helping somebody advance in their career and you're using your own lived experience to do so. And your mentee will give you feedback along the way, ideally, on their interactions with you or, hey, you shared this particular detail of your third year in the legal industry, but it didn't...
really show how I can do the same thing. Like, can you expand on that a little bit more? Like, you're gonna learn a lot about yourself in that process. So being coachable in addition to being able to coach. The ability to distance yourself from your mentee's experience and your own. Yes, you are using your lived experience to help motivate, inspire, and teach your mentee what to do and what not to do, but they are not a replica of you.
and being able to allow your mentee to take your advice, take your stories, take your experiences, and then apply it in a way that's unique to them requires a certain level of detachment. Because I've seen people get very invested and almost offended when the mentee doesn't follow the exact step -by -step process that this individual did to get promoted, when in reality, it's allowing the mentee to choose their own adventure by the map that you've laid out for them.
and recognizing that the map has changed, you know, the same way industries have changed. I think the last one is, I'll actually have two. Empathy first, being able to recognize that your mentee is going through a lot, you know, and they reach out to you, they're most likely in a pressure cooker situation, or what feels like a pressure cooker situation for them in their career, which is why they want to work with you. They...
could be staying up late, really trying to figure out what their next move is and your support is important, but being able to empathize if they are a little more vocal, let's say. Menties can be very intense from time to time, very excited to work with you. And so practicing some empathy to recognize that their excitement comes from the hard work that you've done, I think goes a long way, just to give them some grace. And then I think the last one is diversifying.
Janice Omadeke (41:09.07)
who you would qualify as a mentee. There's a lot of pattern matching that can take place in mentorship where if you are part of an overrepresented group, you'll most likely just psychologically say, oh, well, this person reminds me of myself, my son, my daughter, and gravitate towards that person, but that's not necessarily the foundation for a strong mentor -mentee relationship. In fact,
I've found people from a different background than myself have been more impactful in mentorship. So opening up your lens so that if there is, you know, somebody that comes from a marginalized community coming to you for mentorship, you don't close your doors. You say, yeah, absolutely, because I recognize that the systems that have been put in place, especially in corporate America and the corporate setting, have not been as equitable for you as they have been for me. In fact, they were built for me.
as an overrepresented person now in a mentorship capacity. So let me serve as your influential ally, maybe your industry mentor, company insider, whatever, you know, of the seven categories you fit in to allow that person to bypass some of the hurdles that you have not necessarily had to step foot in. So.
I think there's something very powerful about, there is a value in somebody that is very similar to you and on the same path. Okay, that's very powerful. But there's also something equally, if not more so, to be seen. We're very different, but that's why would I come to you for the same? Actually, that's the point, isn't it? I go to you for something that isn't what I already have or know or can appreciate. And that by definition has got to educate me.
Exactly.
Janice Omadeke (42:49.742)
yet.
Janice Omadeke (42:53.966)
Right. But I think that... Exactly. And I think too, you know, this is why I recommend people do not put all of their weight in one mentor. One is just not realistic. One person cannot solve all of your problems. One person cannot make you 100 % happy. So by diversifying your mentor pool, you're 100 % right. You can have mentors who...
have a similar background or, you know, career experience or are of the same demographic intersections as you, while also diversifying that so that you have diversity of thought, perspective, experience, and reach that by pulling all of those levers from multiple mentors, you're then able to build that fulfilling career that is very rich and deep and full of experiences that...
you've been able to then make into your own experience. And you don't get that if you just say, you know, I am a man, therefore all of my mentors must be men. Or, you know, I am of this particular affinity group, therefore every single one of my mentors must be of this affinity group as well. It's the responsibility of both the mentee and the mentor to...
open their aperture to the types of mentorship and the types of people that are available to them and focus less on the external but more on the values and how they can actually work together.
This is.
Guy Bloom (44:26.337)
every single guest I have I just want to keep going.
Thank you.
Guy Bloom (44:36.225)
So if people wanted to contact, to see, to read more about you, where do they go? What do they tap into their keyboards?
Yes.
Janice Omadeke (44:46.542)
Yes, you can visit my website, JaniceOmedecki .com. Feel free to shoot me a message on LinkedIn or find me on Instagram. Janice Omedecki is where I live digitally across all three platforms.
put that in the description and the book once again is called...
Mentorship Unlocked, the science and art of setting yourself up for success. Published by Wiley, pre -orders are available now and wherever books are sold April 2nd.
Janice Omadeke (45:17.486)
Hehehehe
fantastic. So Janice, stay on for just a few more moments just to make sure everything uploads. You've been absolutely on point, really succinct, really clear, punching it all out and it's been lovely to listen and learn from you. So thank you very much.
Sure.
Janice Omadeke (45:35.854)
Thank you for having me.